Give us some "ballers" Perry

[Swordsman78]

I have to say that watching the Reds play last night was enlightening.   Guys hustling, taking the extra base, stealing multiple times, diving catches, bunts for hits.....  a bunch of 5'7 guys basically having fun, and beating the crap out of a much more physically gifted, higher payroll, Angel squad.

They were truly and entertaining, and fun team to watch.

I want some of that for our Angels.

[AngelStew43]

Matt McLain was playing right under our noses, at UCLA.  I just want to hire the Reds hitting coaches.  

All of those young guys seem like they can really hit. 

[Swordsman78]

21 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Matt McLain was playing right under our noses, at UCLA.  I just want to hire the Reds hitting coaches.  

All of those young guys seem like they can really hit. 

Yep.  Saw a few clutch Reds 2 out rbi hits too 

[BTH]

Not happening with Perry as GM.

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Not happening with Perry as GM.

I think Perry would have been fine walking in and dismantling the team by trading off anyone that could fetch a prospect, which includes Ohtani. 

But before he could make his first move Arte shoved Maddon down his throat and demanded a top tier player signed, which ended up a disaster.  

His drafts have been creative and productive but you can squeeze only so much out of mid tier picks instead of taking a few low first rounders by tanking. Having Neto and Schanuel rise so quickly says he knows how to spend his first picks. Picking up O'Hoppe was damn near genius level trading. 

Minasian is trying his damnedest to assemble a team that just won't stay on the field. No other GM could stop the last three years of injuries so thinking someone new is going to magically do better is a fools errand. 

Not with an owner that has subverted the baseball ops in every way imaginable. For fucks sake, Arte put the team in limbo on an aborted sale, handcuffing Minasian to not make any big moves that Moreno wouldn't clear. 

It has been one long clusterfuck and it hasn't been Minasian's plan to operate this way. 

 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I think Perry would have been fine walking in and dismantling the team by trading off anyone that could fetch a prospect, which includes Ohtani. 

But before he could make his first move Arte shoved Maddon down his throat and demanded a top tier player signed, which ended up a disaster.  

His drafts have been creative and productive but you can squeeze only so much out of mid tier picks instead of taking a few low first rounders by tanking. Having Neto and Schanuel rise so quickly says he knows how to spend his first picks. Picking up O'Hoppe was damn near genius level trading. 

Minasian is trying his damnedest to assemble a team that just won't stay on the field. No other GM could stop the last three years of injuries so thinking someone new is going to magically do better is a fools errand. 

Not with an owner that has subverted the baseball ops in every way imaginable. For fucks sake, Arte put the team in limbo on an aborted sale, handcuffing Minasian to not make any big moves that Moreno wouldn't clear. 

It has been one long clusterfuck and it hasn't been Minasian's plan to operate this way. 

 

What I meant was Perry’s “type” hasn’t been the speed guys who’ll play like Swordsman said in the OP, hence why I said that won’t happen with him as GM.

But I agree that Perry’s been hamstrung by Arte, per usual.

[Angel Oracle]

8 hours ago, Trendon said:

What I meant was Perry’s “type” hasn’t been the speed guys who’ll play like Swordsman said in the OP, hence why I said that won’t happen with him as GM.

But I agree that Perry’s been hamstrung by Arte, per usual.

That may be because Moreno only likes the big bats.

At least Minasian didn’t sign the overrated Trea Turner, Moreno’s latest man crush.

[totdprods]

13 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

Matt McLain was playing right under our noses, at UCLA.  I just want to hire the Reds hitting coaches.  

All of those young guys seem like they can really hit. 

We picked Sam Bachman ahead of McClain, Frelick, and Gavin Williams who are all looking really solid. 

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

We picked Sam Bachman ahead of McClain, Frelick, and Gavin Williams who are all looking really solid. 

[Blarg]

9 hours ago, Trendon said:

What I meant was Perry’s “type” hasn’t been the speed guys who’ll play like Swordsman said in the OP, hence why I said that won’t happen with him as GM.

But I agree that Perry’s been hamstrung by Arte, per usual.

Catchers and first baseman are not speed guys but Neto is. His drafts have been a lot of need, not just speed. Hell, he spent an entire draft on pitching. I don't know what everyone's expectations are when considering the holes he has been plugging but they seem unrealistic. 

 

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

Obviously every draft is gonna have “hindsight” regrets, but have a feeling Bachman is gonna be one we wished we hadn’t done. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

That may be because Moreno only likes the big bats.

At least Minasian didn’t sign the overrated Trea Turner, Moreno’s latest man crush.

I'm just talking about things like he prefers guys like Drury, Cron, Moustakas, Grichuk, etc. who are more hitters than athletes.

[BTH]

58 minutes ago, Blarg said:

His drafts have been a lot of need, not just speed..

yeah, and that's my point.

He's prioritizing other things besides speed, be it for his and/or Arte's reasons.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

We picked Sam Bachman ahead of McClain, Frelick, and Gavin Williams who are all looking really solid. 

the biggest draft mistake was Will Wilson.

Not only because of who he was and the guy picked after him (Corbin Carroll), but that they then used Wilson to get rid of Cozart's salary (another mistake) and sign Rendon (a third mistake)

[Swordsman78]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

yeah, and that's my point.

He's prioritizing other things besides speed, be it for his and/or Arte's reasons.

IMO Due to the horrendous SP over the past few years, Perry was hemmed in to prioritizing pitching prospects which caused the "miss" on the other position player guys that are now producing in the Bigs.

[BTH]

6 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

IMO Due to the horrendous SP over the past few years, Perry was hemmed in to prioritizing pitching prospects which caused the "miss" on the other position player guys that are now producing in the Bigs.

yeah, especially in the 2021 draft.

they weren't taking the best player available, but the best pitcher available (in their minds)

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I'm just talking about things like he prefers guys like Drury, Cron, Moustakas, Grichuk, etc. who are more hitters than athletes.

Other than Drury, who was a two year deal, everyone else on your list was an emergency pick up to cover lost players.

They were available at a cost the Angels could afford. Nobody is easily letting go of some 5 tool player without a huge payout either in cash, prospects or both. 

By the way, Grichuck is more of an athlete than a hitter. 

[Blarg]

11 minutes ago, Trendon said:

yeah, and that's my point.

He's prioritizing other things besides speed, be it for his and/or Arte's reasons.

Again, Neto is a shortstop with speed. O'Hoppe is a catcher, Schanuel is a 1st baseman, neither position is filled with "speed" guys. Minasian brought up Adell, a speed guy, and he was faster to the IL than any other player this season. 

[Blarg]

13 minutes ago, Trendon said:

the biggest draft mistake was Will Wilson.

Not only because of who he was and the guy picked after him (Corbin Carroll), but that they then used Wilson to get rid of Cozart's salary (another mistake) and sign Rendon (a third mistake)

Turns out Wilson is a flop so jettisoning Cozart's salary turned out to be a good move from making a bad first round pick. 

[BTH]

8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Other than Drury, who was a two year deal, everyone else on your list was an emergency pick up to cover lost players.

They were available at a cost the Angels could afford. Nobody is easily letting go of some 5 tool player without a huge payout either in cash, prospects or both. 

By the way, Grichuck is more of an athlete than a hitter. 

OK, let me be more specific in what I'm saying:

Perry's track record as Angels GM has indicated that one of the things he values in hitters is exit velocity.

That's shown via guys like O'Hoppe, Grichuk, Drury, Neto, Renfroe, Moustakas, and Cron who had above-average EVs when they were acquired.

 

And generally, it's hard to get guys with above-average EVs and speed/athleticism. Neto is an exception. So he's leaned more toward the former than the latter. So my point was that speed or athleticism isn't his primary focus in acquiring players. Not saying he doesn't want players like Neto, but just that he's leaned more towards EV than speed when he needs to pick between the two.

[WicketMaiden]

16 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

I have to say that watching the Reds play last night was enlightening.   Guys hustling, taking the extra base, stealing multiple times, diving catches, bunts for hits.....  a bunch of 5'7 guys basically having fun, and beating the crap out of a much more physically gifted, higher payroll, Angel squad.

They were truly and entertaining, and fun team to watch.

I want some of that for our Angels.

This sounds like the Angels 2002 - 2009. Those early Scioscia teams were great fun to watch.

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Turns out Wilson is a flop so jettisoning Cozart's salary turned out to be a good move from making a bad first round pick. 

I would have preferred making a good pick in the first place…rather than using Wilson to dump Cozart’s salary….

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, BTH said:

OK, let me be more specific in what I'm saying:

Perry's track record as Angels GM has indicated that one of the things he values in hitters is exit velocity.

That's shown via guys like O'Hoppe, Grichuk, Drury, Neto, Renfroe, Moustakas, and Cron who had above-average EVs when they were acquired.

 

And generally, it's hard to get guys with above-average EVs and speed/athleticism. Neto is an exception. So he's leaned more toward the former than the latter. So my point was that speed or athleticism isn't his primary focus in acquiring players. Not saying he doesn't want players like Neto, but just that he's leaned more towards EV than speed when he needs to pick between the two.

And again you are ignoring positions. Right field, 1st base, catcher, even third base are traditionally your power hitters and not guys with speed. If you get a guy with a little extra step, great but you are not looking for a toolsy infielder for 1st base. 

Moving back to the outfield Renfroe made sense for defense while they waited on Adell to mature. Minasian did trade for Moniak who is a guy with speed. Grichuk also can run. Adding in exit velo is the bonus not a detractor.

And lets be clear, all of the Angels infield speed guys are on the IL or can't play other than Rengifo and Velazquez. And Velazquez really can't play.

Fletcher bombed in his return. Neto has bounced on and off the IL. Urshela split in two like a popsicle. To use your speed you have to get on base. To get on base you have to wear the jersey on the active roster, not just hanging with the boyz in the dugout on the 15 day.

Picking up O'Hoppe on trade, genius. Picking up Neto in the first round, genius. Picking up Schanuel in the first round and having him perform at MLB level in fewer days than it takes to age a steak, fucking genius. 

But covering an entire roster that goes down with injuries, you aren't picking up on waiver wire or trading for the Reds lineup. 

By the way, no Reds player has more than 24 stolen bases but they all run because they are all told to run. If there is something to complain about it is the constant red light signal from the 3rd base coach. 

If you want to see speed you go to Inland where the last three drafts have filtered to. Having very few second round picks and everything else mid tier isn't putting a lot of talent back into the minors.

 

[Swordsman78]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

And again you are ignoring positions. Right field, 1st base, catcher, even third base are traditionally your power hitters and not guys with speed. If you get a guy with a little extra step, great but you are not looking for a toolsy infielder for 1st base. 

Moving back to the outfield Renfroe made sense for defense while they waited on Adell to mature. Minasian did trade for Moniak who is a guy with speed. Grichuk also can run. Adding in exit velo is the bonus not a detractor.

And lets be clear, all of the Angels infield speed guys are on the IL or can't play other than Rengifo and Velazquez. And Velazquez really can't play.

Fletcher bombed in his return. Neto has bounced on and off the IL. Urshela split in two like a popsicle. To use your speed you have to get on base. To get on base you have to wear the jersey on the active roster, not just hanging with the boyz in the dugout on the 15 day.

Picking up O'Hoppe on trade, genius. Picking up Neto in the first round, genius. Picking up Schanuel in the first round and having him perform at MLB level in fewer days than it takes to age a steak, fucking genius. 

But covering an entire roster that goes down with injuries, you aren't picking up on waiver wire or trading for the Reds lineup. 

By the way, no Reds player has more than 24 stolen bases but they all run because they are all told to run. If there is something to complain about it is the constant red light signal from the 3rd base coach. 

If you want to see speed you go to Inland where the last three drafts have filtered to. Having very few second round picks and everything else mid tier isn't putting a lot of talent back into the minors.

 

 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

8 scouts.... Done!