The Best Path Forward

[Angelsjunky]

16 minutes ago, AngelFanInTheATL said:

That's a lot to assume from 53 at-bats this season. You're putting him up there with Matt Olson, Jose Ramirez and Cody Bellinger.

No, or at least certainly not Ramirez, who peaked more in the 6-8 MVP range. Bellinger is a hard comp for anyone, because he's played at so many different levels. I don't expect O'Hoppe to have Olson's power, but O'Hoppe gains a lot of ground by being a solid catcher (an average C gains something like 2 WAR over an average 1B).

Fangraphs' WAR gives a lot of credit to good catchers, and what I've seen shows him as a plus catcher. So he could hit .250/.340/.450 in 130 games with good-but-not-great defense and reach 4 WAR. But I think he might hit better than that, at least in peak years.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[UndertheHalo]

20 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not to sound like an ass but if you could get some young, legit talent for a player that rarely plays, then you have to consider it. 

You don’t sound like an ass.  The injuries have been a problem with Mike and it’s an ongoing concern.  But he’s still only like 31.  And when he plays he still can be absolutely dominant.  
 

like the injury now.  It’s just a freak thing.  He was doing ok otherwise this year. 

[Angels 1961]

Best path forward starts tonight. Halos get on a winning streak and make playoffs. LET"S GO HALOS LET'S GO HALOS I believe we can do it YES WE CAN YES WE CAN. If not regroup this winter as Angel's do have some young talent and plan for 2024. Ohtani leaves I'd wish him well and thanks for the memories. DH spot for 2024 be open for Trout, Rendon and others. I try and resign Moose, Moore, Lopez and few others. Angel's will be OK going forward. 

[TroutField]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

No, or at least certainly not Ramirez, who peaked more in the 6-8 MVP range. Bellinger is a hard comp for anyone, because he's played at so many different levels. I don't expect O'Hoppe to have Olson's power, but O'Hoppe gains a lot of ground by being a solid catcher (an average C gains something like 2 WAR over an average 1B).

Fangraphs' WAR gives a lot of credit to good catchers, and what I've seen shows him as a plus catcher. So he could hit .250/.340/.450 in 130 games with good-but-not-great defense and reach 4 WAR. But I think he might hit better than that, at least in peak years.

I wasn’t really condoning trading him, my only thinking is we have very little trade capital available for a rebuild, we don’t have an Ohtani or a cost controlled Trout to get us prospect capital back. 
IF and notice I said IF, because Moreno wouldn’t go for it but a full rebuild might require losing a young player we don’t want to in hopes of getting a couple good prospects that might contribute in 4-5 years IF the angels get their shit together. 
Admittedly it almost certainly won’t happen but just a thought. 

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, TroutField said:

I wasn’t really condoning trading him, my only thinking is we have very little trade capital available for a rebuild, we don’t have an Ohtani or a cost controlled Trout to get us prospect capital back. 
IF and notice I said IF, because Moreno wouldn’t go for it but a full rebuild might require losing a young player we don’t want to in hopes of getting a couple good prospects that might contribute in 4-5 years IF the angels get their shit together. 

I just don't think we're going to see a rebuild, regardless of whether or not Ohtani is back. 

And as much as I want Shohei back, there are other paths to take. Not great ones, but they'll still try to be competitive.

The main loss with Ohtani is his bat - because there really aren't ANY great free agent options, or at least any that come close to what he's done the last few years (especially this year). But there are a bunch of good free agent starters, so I suspect the Angels will go big on a couple good starting pitchers and then more budget on the lineup, and focus on depth (and hope that Trout and Rendon can stay healthy).

[TroutField]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I just don't think we're going to see a rebuild, regardless of whether or not Ohtani is back. 

And as much as I want Shohei back, there are other paths to take. Not great ones, but they'll still try to be competitive.

The main loss with Ohtani is his bat - because there really aren't ANY great free agent options, or at least any that come close to what he's done the last few years (especially this year). But there are a bunch of good free agent starters, so I suspect the Angels will go big on a couple good starting pitchers and then more budget on the lineup, and focus on depth (and hope that Trout and Rendon can stay healthy).

Groundhog’s day just never ends. 
 

im sorry if I sound overly negative but I’m just burnt out by this approach, it just relying on too much to break right to win. I really thought the team this year was strong enough to make the playoffs and make a run at the division, but I guess I don’t know shit lol. 
 

I don’t get all the Arte Moreno hate that I’ve seen either, the man did everything he could this year to get Ohtani to the playoffs and keep him, it’s not his fault the entire lineup forgot how to swing a baseball bat once anyone gets onto second or 3rd… at some point the players needs to do their damn job. If they hit even average with runners in scoring position they are probably more like 5-5 or 6-4 over their last 10…. 
 

I was really looking forward to bringing my kids to a playoff game this year and this stupid team just can’t make that memory happen for me. Fuckers… The last time the angels were in a playoff game my daughter was 1 and I was a broke ass teenager that couldn’t even afford a playoff ticket.  I guess I can find solace in the fact that College Football is right around the corner! 

[LaPalma]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Best path forward starts tonight. Halos get on a winning streak and make playoffs. LET"S GO HALOS LET'S GO HALOS I believe we can do it YES WE CAN YES WE CAN. If not regroup this winter as Angel's do have some young talent and plan for 2024. Ohtani leaves I'd wish him well and thanks for the memories. DH spot for 2024 be open for Trout, Rendon and others. I try and resign Moose, Moore, Lopez and few others. Angel's will be OK going forward. 

I’m tired of OK.  Time to sign Ohtani and start building around him.  If done right, we can be a contender in 3 years.

[Angels 1961]

3 minutes ago, LaPalma said:

I’m tired of OK.  Time to sign Ohtani and start building around him.  If done right, we can be a contender in 3 years.

Ohtani does not to wait 3 years.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, TroutField said:

Groundhog’s day just never ends. 
 

im sorry if I sound overly negative but I’m just burnt out by this approach, it just relying on too much to break right to win. I really thought the team this year was strong enough to make the playoffs and make a run at the division, but I guess I don’t know shit lol. 
 

I don’t get all the Arte Moreno hate that I’ve seen either, the man did everything he could this year to get Ohtani to the playoffs and keep him, it’s not his fault the entire lineup forgot how to swing a baseball bat once anyone gets onto second or 3rd… at some point the players needs to do their damn job. If they hit even average with runners in scoring position they are probably more like 5-5 or 6-4 over their last 10…. 
 

I was really looking forward to bringing my kids to a playoff game this year and this stupid team just can’t make that memory happen for me. Fuckers… The last time the angels were in a playoff game my daughter was 1 and I was a broke ass teenager that couldn’t even afford a playoff ticket.  I guess I can find solace in the fact that College Football is right around the corner! 

Well, consider also what an Ohtani extension means: the Angels will be paying three players ~$120M a year for the next three, then two players $85M for another four. Those are both OK if at least two of the three occur A) the owner is willing to spend and B) the team makes good choices in free agency, C) they have a good farm. Not sure I have faith that the Angels can pull off 2-of-3, but it is what it is.

[Tyler]

Angels trade SP Patrick Sandoval, 3B Anthony Rendon, CF Jordyn Adams, OF Nelson Rada and cash to the Nationals for SP Patrick Corbin.

Angels trade LF Taylor Ward and C Matt Thaiss to the Guardians for RP James Karinchak and RP Enyel De Los Santos.

Angels re-sign SP/DH Shohei Ohtani.
Angels re-sign CL Reynaldo Lopez.
Decline RP Aaron Loup option
Decline 3B Eduardo Escobar option


SP Shohei Ohtani
SP Reid Detmers
SP Griffin Canning
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Chase Silseth

MRP Enyel De Los Santos
MRP Sam Bachman
MRP James Karinchak
LRP Chris Rodriguez
SU Carlos Estevez
SU Jose Soriano
CL Reynaldo Lopez

SS Zach Neto
DH Shohei Ohtani
CF Mike Trout
LF Mickey Moniak
2B Brandon Drury
RF Jo Adell
C Logan O'Hoppe
3B Luis Rengifo
1B Nolan Schanuel
 

[BTH]

13 minutes ago, Tyler said:

SS Zach Neto
DH Shohei Ohtani
CF Mike Trout
LF Mickey Moniak
2B Brandon Drury
RF Jo Adell
C Logan O'Hoppe
3B Luis Rengifo
1B Nolan Schanuel

no offense, but that lineup sucks.

you can't count on half the guys in that lineup.

and if anyone gets hurt, Velazquez is back into the starting lineup.

[SoCalDucksFan]

2 hours ago, LaPalma said:

I’m tired of OK.  Time to sign Ohtani and start building around him.  If done right, we can be a contender in 3 years.

LET IT GO!!  Anything to be discussed from this point forward, needs to be done leaving Ohtani completely out of the picture.

There is simply NO WAY he is going to sign here.  Thinking that there is even a chance, is about the same as thinking you have a chance at winning tomorrow's $1.5 Billion lottery drawing.  Can it happen?  Sure, if you buy a ticket, there's a chance you will win.  Should you go out and buy a house today in expectation of that?  No.

Shohei has made it 100% crystal clear what he's looking for.  And the Angels are COMPLETELY the opposite of that.  He couldn't have spelled it out any more than he did.  If you want to think that the Angels are in any way, shape or form, a team capable of making the Playoffs, let alone contending for a Championship, you're delusional.  And I assure you, that Shohei is not delusional.

[SoCalDucksFan]

That said, Mr. Ohtani is a class act and respectful.  He will be very complimentary of the Angels WHEN he signs a long term deal elsewhere.  He's not going to blast them on the way out.  He will refrain from saying that they have no chance of winning a championship.  He'll simply say that the team he's going to, is in a better position to win Now.  That he thinks he will fit in better within their system than he did in Anaheim.

[SoCalDucksFan]

1 hour ago, Tyler said:

Angels trade SP Patrick Sandoval, 3B Anthony Rendon, CF Jordyn Adams, OF Nelson Rada and cash to the Nationals for SP Patrick Corbin.

Angels trade LF Taylor Ward and C Matt Thaiss to the Guardians for RP James Karinchak and RP Enyel De Los Santos.

Angels re-sign SP/DH Shohei Ohtani.
Angels re-sign CL Reynaldo Lopez.
Decline RP Aaron Loup option
Decline 3B Eduardo Escobar option


SP Shohei Ohtani
SP Reid Detmers
SP Griffin Canning
SP Tyler Anderson
SP Chase Silseth

MRP Enyel De Los Santos
MRP Sam Bachman
MRP James Karinchak
LRP Chris Rodriguez
SU Carlos Estevez
SU Jose Soriano
CL Reynaldo Lopez

SS Zach Neto
DH Shohei Ohtani
CF Mike Trout
LF Mickey Moniak
2B Brandon Drury
RF Jo Adell
C Logan O'Hoppe
3B Luis Rengifo
1B Nolan Schanuel
 

Nobody is going to take on Rendon, who can barely put together 2 weeks of play without getting injured.  And Ohtani is gone.  LET IT GO with any thoughts of signing him.  If he had wanted to sign here, he would have, and the Angels have shown NOTHING to make him question that.  Look at their record this season.  Look at their record last season.  Look at their record the season before that.  They are what they are, and if Ohtani wants more of the same, he'll sign here.  If he wants the money AND the chance to win a Championship, he's going elsewhere.

[Stradling]

42 minutes ago, SoCalDucksFan said:

Nobody is going to take on Rendon, who can barely put together 2 weeks of play without getting injured.  And Ohtani is gone.  LET IT GO with any thoughts of signing him.  If he had wanted to sign here, he would have, and the Angels have shown NOTHING to make him question that.  Look at their record this season.  Look at their record last season.  Look at their record the season before that.  They are what they are, and if Ohtani wants more of the same, he'll sign here.  If he wants the money AND the chance to win a Championship, he's going elsewhere.

Or Ohtani signs an extension. 

[Angels in 2030]

[Lazorko Saves]

Yeah, the "now we need to rebuild" crowd are just nihilists.  They believe in nothing.

[SoCalDucksFan]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Or Ohtani signs an extension. 

You seem like an intelligent guy.  Name 1 reason, aside from "loyalty," why Ohtani would remain in Anaheim after becoming a Free Agent.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, SoCalDucksFan said:

You seem like an intelligent guy.  Name 1 reason, aside from "loyalty," why Ohtani would remain in Anaheim after becoming a Free Agent.

He likes the direction of the team compared to what they started with when he joined. Now I know you won’t get that but it’s noticeably different. 

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

He likes the direction of the team compared to what they started with when he joined. Now I know you won’t get that but it’s noticeably different. 

what, in your opinion, is noticeably different about the direction of the team now compared to 2018?

[BTH]

2 hours ago, SoCalDucksFan said:

That said, Mr. Ohtani is a class act and respectful.  He will be very complimentary of the Angels WHEN he signs a long term deal elsewhere.  He's not going to blast them on the way out.  He will refrain from saying that they have no chance of winning a championship.  He'll simply say that the team he's going to, is in a better position to win Now.  That he thinks he will fit in better within their system than he did in Anaheim.

You're right, but I wish that weren't the case.

Arte Moreno needs a wake-up call from someone who matters.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Trendon said:

what, in your opinion, is noticeably different about the direction of the team now compared to 2018?

Youth that has upside. 

[TheLordofOuts]

The best path forward is to let Ohtani go. Let Trout explore a trade.  Get rid of anyone making more than $8 million per year.  Get the team payroll under $100m by 2025.  Then, somehow blackmail Arte into selling.  

[SoCalDucksFan]

4 minutes ago, TheLordofOuts said:

The best path forward is to let Ohtani go. Let Trout explore a trade.  Get rid of anyone making more than $8 million per year.  Get the team payroll under $100m by 2025.  Then, somehow blackmail Arte into selling.  

Ohtani is gone, it's not up to Angels to "let him go."  They're not going to get rid of Trout, because he's the only decent player they'll have left.  Nobody is going to trade for Rendon, knowing that he'll probably trip over his shoelace, and be out for 2 seasons.

[fan_since79]

I hope Ohtani doesn't get a look at today's Dodger highlights.

Dodgers are also headed to the postseason like they are almost every single year. Ohtani would tip them into World Series contention.