Trade a starting pitcher

[Docwaukee]

So give me your thoughts on moving one of our starters.  Are you comfortable doing it from where they're currently at from an SP standpoint?  Who would it take to make you more comfortable?  Which one would you move?  And what would you expect in return?  

My criteria would be to first get another starter.  But it would have to be someone of very good quality.  Like Senga. 

Then I would be willing to part with any of Sandoval, Suarez or Detmers.  Sandoval and Suarez both have 4 years of control.  Detmers has five.  I would say that in terms of value it would be Sandoval, then Detmers a pretty close 2nd.  Then Suarez. 

What do you guys think about a swap of Suarez for Jake McCarthy? 

ARI seems notoriously difficult to trade with but they've got OF depth and their SP is pretty bad outside of Galen.   

[Erstad Grit]

I say no.  With the price and injury risk in SP and Ohtani being a FA I think we should keep our depth.  

[Docwaukee]

Or what about one of Detmers or Sandoval for Albies?  

[tdawg87]

I hate all of this.

I could part with Suarez. Obviously he has the least value. But I will die on the hill that trading good, cost controlled starters is a terrible idea 99% of the time and I don't think the Angels are in the position to do this.

Sandoval? No. Absolutely not.

[Stradling]

If they sign Senga I’d be ok with Sandoval for Adames or Albies type of trade.  I’m not trading Detmers.  

[Chuck]

@Docwaukee I would trade Jose Suarez for Jake McCarthy in a heartbeat. The D'Backs system is LOADED with OF depth and top prospects so you may be on to something here. 

13 HR, 34 SB combined between AAA and the big leagues. Good defender. Great speed/power combo and only 25, like Suarez. 

McCarthy had a 2.4 WAR across 99 games in the big leagues. Killed it in AAA slashing .369/.457/.596

[AngelStew43]

Controllable talent that we can trade is definitely good.  It is also why players like Suarez and Adell still have value to some clubs.  

A package of controllable talent for a player like Reynolds helps both clubs because it helps Pittsburgh fill holes in their roster.  

A trade for a player like McCarthy would be great, but in addition to Suarez, we'd probably have to include Adell, and another pitching prospect not named Detmers. 

[Warfarin]

I would not trade SP at this point.  This team has spent so many years desperately searching for SP.  We finally have a good amount now.  Let's enjoy it and fill our offensive holes via FA and under-the-rader type trades, like the one we just did.

Also, let's not forget that our best SP is a free agent next year, so it probably would make sense to keep as much pitching talent as possible in case he does leave.

[Chuck]

50 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

Or what about one of Detmers or Sandoval for Albies?  

[Chuck]

Suarez probably gets you McCarthy. Sandoval could probably get you Corbin Carroll though. Something to think about. 

But I'm with @tdawg87 and @Stradling. I don't want to part with Sandoval or Detmers in any trade. 

[Docwaukee]

9 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Docwaukee I would trade Jose Suarez for Jake McCarthy in a heartbeat. The D'Backs system is LOADED with OF depth and top prospects so you may be on to something here. 

13 HR, 34 SB combined between AAA and the big leagues. Good defender. Great speed/power combo and only 25, like Suarez. 

McCarthy had a 2.4 WAR across 99 games in the big leagues. Killed it in AAA slashing .369/.457/.596

I was actually looking at Varsho not realizing how freakin' good that guy is.  Then ended up on their roster and was like 'who the heck is Jake McCarthy?'

 

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

Controllable talent that we can trade is definitely good.  It is also why players like Suarez and Adell still have value to some clubs.  

A package of controllable talent for a player like Reynolds helps both clubs because it helps Pittsburgh fill holes in their roster.  

A trade for a player like McCarthy would be great, but in addition to Suarez, we'd probably have to include Adell, and another pitching prospect not named Detmers. 

I just don't see any reason to include Adell in a trade right now.  He's worth almost nothing in trade so to just throw him in would be rather annoying.  I'd rather just park him in the minors and give him a cup of coffee later in the year in hopes that he can recoup some of his value.  

And I'm not overly convinced McCarthy would require more than Suarez.  

[Chuck]

@Docwaukee another system loaded with ready now top OF's is the Milwaukee Brewers. 

Would love one of Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick or Esteury Ruiz. 

Their top prospect is also an OF, but he may be a couple years away in Jackson Chourio.

But the three others are ready for major league action. 

[Stradling]

Suarez and Fletcher for Adames and Yelich. 

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Suarez and Fletcher for Adames and Yelich. 

They wouldn't do that. The Brewers regard Adames as the best position player on their roster and their pitching staff is fine. Even if it meant unloading Yelich's contract they wouldn't make that deal. 

[AngelStew43]

56 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I just don't see any reason to include Adell in a trade right now.  He's worth almost nothing in trade so to just throw him in would be rather annoying.  I'd rather just park him in the minors and give him a cup of coffee later in the year in hopes that he can recoup some of his value.  

And I'm not overly convinced McCarthy would require more than Suarez.  

I don't agree that he's not worth anything.  Like I said, Adell still has 4 full seasons of club control.  It may not be the Angels, but teams like Cincy, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and Arizona, they place a high value on club control.  And, Adell has incredible power.  If we trade him, and he improves his bat to ball skills...

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Or what about one of Detmers or Sandoval for Albies?  

no

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

If they sign Senga I’d be ok with Sandoval for Adames or Albies type of trade.  I’m not trading Detmers.  

Sandoval > Detmers but not only no but hell no. Last season our rotation was 6th best in the AL after years of being near the bottom. We need to keep the pitching we have and fix the offense another way.

[Angelsfan1984]

I think silseth can replace Suarez instantly. I’m fine using him as a piece. 
Hell, using barria again would be fine.

suarez, Adell should fetch something decent.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Docwaukee another system loaded with ready now top OF's is the Milwaukee Brewers. 

Would love one of Garrett Mitchell, Sal Frelick or Esteury Ruiz. 

Their top prospect is also an OF, but he may be a couple years away in Jackson Chourio.

But the three others are ready for major league action. 

That system has supposedly been loaded in OF prospects for a decade and not produced any.  One of the classically overrated systems in MLB.

 Lewis Brinson, Corey Ray, Monte Harrison, Brett Phillips, Tristan Lutz....   They draft talent but do a terrible job of developing it.  Much better at the pitching end of things.

 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

They wouldn't do that. The Brewers regard Adames as the best position player on their roster and their pitching staff is fine. Even if it meant unloading Yelich's contract they wouldn't make that deal. 

I think Strad was being facetious.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I think Strad was being facetious.

I wasn’t. Yelling has about $120 million worth of negative value. 

[Dtwncbad]

I’m not trading Sandoval.  No way.  I personally think he could be absolutely elite.  He has the stuff and he has shown plenty of dominance.  He now has a good amount of experience.  This could be a year he clicks and is lights out.

 

[Docwaukee]

39 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I don't agree that he's not worth anything.  Like I said, Adell still has 4 full seasons of club control.  It may not be the Angels, but teams like Cincy, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and Arizona, they place a high value on club control.  And, Adell has incredible power.  If we trade him, and he improves his bat to ball skills...

according to BBref, he's got 5 years of control which I didn't realize so he'll be an arb 4 in 2027 which is great.  All the reason to keep him.   I'm not giving up on him, but if I'm another team, I'm not giving up much value to get him.  Baseball is a skill game.  Jo Adell has shown very little skill for the sport so far.  He can run fast, throw hard, and hit far.  Those are not baseball skills.  They are attributes that could make you a really good player.  Jabari Blash had incredible power.  

He's got 1 option year left.  I say use it.  While we can debate how much current value he has, I think we can both agree that his value used to be much much higher.  Why make him a throw in when you still have the option of parking him in the minors to see if he can recoup some of that value.  Unless the org gets a surprise return for him, I'd much rather keep him and see what happens.  

[Warfarin]

53 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I don't agree that he's not worth anything.  Like I said, Adell still has 4 full seasons of club control.  It may not be the Angels, but teams like Cincy, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and Arizona, they place a high value on club control.  And, Adell has incredible power.  If we trade him, and he improves his bat to ball skills...

 

1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

according to BBref, he's got 5 years of control which I didn't realize so he'll be an arb 4 in 2027 which is great.  All the reason to keep him.   I'm not giving up on him, but if I'm another team, I'm not giving up much value to get him.  Baseball is a skill game.  Jo Adell has shown very little skill for the sport so far.  He can run fast, throw hard, and hit far.  Those are not baseball skills.  They are attributes that could make you a really good player.  Jabari Blash had incredible power.  

He's got 1 option year left.  I say use it.  While we can debate how much current value he has, I think we can both agree that his value used to be much much higher.  Why make him a throw in when you still have the option of parking him in the minors to see if he can recoup some of that value.  Unless the org gets a surprise return for him, I'd much rather keep him and see what happens.  

I think that's a great response and agree.  Adell has a ton of potential and can become a very good MLB player, but quite frankly, no team would give up much at all for him at this point, because in a full season's worth of at-bats, he has posted roughly a 5% BB rate, a 35% K rate, and terrible defense.  If he were trending upward and had a strong second half, then he'd have more value, but his last two months were terrible too.  

The best course of action is indeed to keep him in the minors, hope he can make significant plate discipline strides, and become a good MLB player.  I absolutely would not trade him now, because you'd get pennies in return.