Livan Soto

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I think we may field a better team next season if we brought in a SS, moved Soto to 2B, and had Fletcher be our Swiss Army Knife. 

What about Rengifo?  

[drpiranha]

12 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

I think we may field a better team next season if we brought in a SS, moved Soto to 2B, and had Fletcher be our Swiss Army Knife. 

We still have Rengifo. I'd rather get an outfielder-1Bman

[gurn67]

Don't forget that Neto had better numbers at Rocket City than Soto had, and he's only a year younger than Soto. It's nice to have a surplus of middle infielders. No need to sign, or trade for someone off of another team's garbage heap next season.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

15 hours ago, Revad said:

Spring should be interesting with Velasquez and Soto competing for infield spots.  The other question is whether to put resources toward getting a middle infielder better than Fletcher.  Neto is in the wings so LF seems the better direction, especially if Artie oks a multi year deal.

Where does Rengifo play in this scenario?

[Revad]

9 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Where does Rengifo play in this scenario?

2nd base.  Velazquez and Soto would be competing for the backup MI spot most likely.

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, Revad said:

2nd base.  Velazquez and Soto would be competing for the backup MI spot most likely.

I don't think Soto will be a backup on the MLB team, at least not for now.  If he isn't starting, he'll probably be playing regularly in AAA.

As said upthread, his BABIP is unsustainable, but he's nevertheless putting together a solid approach at the plate and looks like a legit MLB player.

[Warfarin]

12 hours ago, gurn67 said:

Don't forget that Neto had better numbers at Rocket City than Soto had, and he's only a year younger than Soto. It's nice to have a surplus of middle infielders. No need to sign, or trade for someone off of another team's garbage heap next season.

A lot of hitters had better numbers than Soto.  What is interesting about this is that it goes to show you that you can't necessarily read into MILB numbers.  There are things that are hard to discern from stats - their approach at the plate, whether their numbers are suffering because they're focusing specifically on improving weaknesses, etc.

I have noticed that some of the best organizations, when it comes to promoting MILB talent .. their MILB players actually have mediocre numbers, but I think it is because they're having them work on certain issues prior to promotion, as opposed to just having players go with their strengths in the minors, only to get crushed at the MLB level.

[AngelStew43]

Rengifo had a great season.  And Neto, I forgot about him.  If the SS job is an open competition, spring training will be fun.  

Rendon and Walsh will probably be back to claim 1B and 3B.  Soto and Rengifo are both better SS than Fletcher.  I'd like to see Fletcher as our version of Chris Taylor.  Play all over the diamond, some SS, 2B, 3B, LF when an OF needs a day off. 

LF is a problem, unless Adell figures out which sliders to hit, and which ones to lay off. 

[stormngt]

9 hours ago, Revad said:

2nd base.  Velazquez and Soto would be competing for the backup MI spot most likely.

Send Velasquez away.  Soto already proved he cam hit better than Velazquez.  He is younger and must be cheaper.

[OhtaniSan]

Just now, stormngt said:

Send Velasquez away.  Soto already proved he cam hit better than Velazquez.  He is younger and must be cheaper.

I believe they both make league minimum. If Velasquez still has options next year, I don't see any reason to cut him. He has value as a bench player, although he has to remain as a bench player/AAAA depth or his weaknesses become extra obvious

[BTH]

Soto has exceeded expectations and has been wonderful, but we (and more importantly, the Angels baseball ops group) need to temper our expectations for him.

As @Inside Pitch pointed out, his performance is clearly unsustainable right now. But the fact that he isn't chasing outside of the zone (his 29.5% chase rate on pitches outside of the zone is better than the league average of 32.6%) bodes well for his chances to carve out a major league role in some capacity.

 

In an ideal world, the Angels should sign a 2B and SS, move Fletcher and Rengifo into super utility roles, and have Velazquez and Soto in AAA as depth.

In reality, I think the Angels end up going with some combination of Fletcher, Rengifo, Velazquez, and Soto at 2B/SS/UTIL next season.

[BTH]

4 hours ago, stormngt said:

Send Velasquez away.  Soto already proved he cam hit better than Velazquez.  He is younger and must be cheaper.

Or, you keep Velazquez in AAA to serve as depth.

He hasn't been great offensively by any means, but his defense helps keep his production slightly above replacement level. Which is better than what they got out of Wade, Villar, Rojas, Gosselin, and Mayfield.

[BTH]

6 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

I'd like to see Fletcher as our version of Chris Taylor.  Play all over the diamond, some SS, 2B, 3B, LF when an OF needs a day off. 

The problem with that is Chris Taylor is a good hitter, and Fletcher hasn't been the past two seasons.

[jsnpritchett]

31 minutes ago, Trendon said:

In an ideal world, the Angels should sign a 2B and SS, move Fletcher and Rengifo into super utility roles, and have Velazquez and Soto in AAA as depth.

In reality, I think the Angels end up going with some combination of Fletcher, Rengifo, Velazquez, and Soto at 2B/SS/UTIL next season.

Yeah, I think your reality option is gonna likely be the scenario.  Assuming the new ownership isn't approved in time to majorly impact free agent spending, I cannot imagine Moreno approving any sort of major (or even medium-range) contracts. 

Even if the budget is kept about the same next year as this year (which I don't believe will be the case...), Othani's new salary is only $3.5M less than his and Upton's combined salaries this year--and Stassi/Fletcher/Rendon collectively get $8M next year, which more than cancels out the "gain" in the budget by not having Lorenzen's $7M on the books.  So those combined increases, plus the subtraction of Upton and Lorenzen, only net you a $2.5M "gain" in payroll flexibility.

As we've discussed elsewhere on the board, the Angels will have a sizable arbitration class (perhaps 7 guys), so those increases will cancel out (if not exceed) the gains from not bringing back Bradley, Mayers, Duffy, and Suzuki.

So then you're left with the absence of the Syndergaard deal of $20M as the only other contract of significance from this year that's not on the books for 2023.  To me, that, plus the "gain" of $2.5M mentioned above, probably  gives a ballpark figure for what the free agent budget will be this off-season, give or take a few million--and even that might be optimistic, unless a new owner comes in quickly. 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by jsnpritchett

[BTH]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

Yeah, I think your reality option is gonna likely be the scenario.  Assuming the new ownership isn't approved in time to majorly impact free agent spending, I cannot imagine Moreno approving any sort of major (or even medium-range) contracts. 

My rough 2023 payroll projection (with arb projections and 0-3 players) for the Angels has them currently around $20M below their 2022 payroll level.

So there's not much room if payroll stays the same. And if Arte lowers the payroll, there may not be room for any additions.

[stormngt]

21 hours ago, Trendon said:

Soto has exceeded expectations and has been wonderful, but we (and more importantly, the Angels baseball ops group) need to temper our expectations for him.

As @Inside Pitch pointed out, his performance is clearly unsustainable right now. But the fact that he isn't chasing outside of the zone (his 29.5% chase rate on pitches outside of the zone is better than the league average of 32.6%) bodes well for his chances to carve out a major league role in some capacity.

 

In an ideal world, the Angels should sign a 2B and SS, move Fletcher and Rengifo into super utility roles, and have Velazquez and Soto in AAA as depth.

In reality, I think the Angels end up going with some combination of Fletcher, Rengifo, Velazquez, and Soto at 2B/SS/UTIL next season.

How much would these veteran "good" 2b and SS cost?  

Fact:  here are the Angels Choices

Sign a starter

Sign an Outfielder who can play 1b.

Or

Sign a Starting SS and a Starting 2b.

Me?  I rather go with Rengifo and Fletcher at middle infielder and sign the starter and Left fielder.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by stormngt

[BTH]

13 minutes ago, stormngt said:

How much would these veteran "good" 2b and SS cost?  

Fact:  here are the Angels Choices

Sign a starter

Sign an Outfielder who can play 1b.

Or

Sign a Starting SS and a Starting 2b.

Me?  I rather go with Rengifo and Flet her at middle infielder and sign the starter and Left fielder.

B

In an ideal world, I meant one where they could do "A" and "B."

Yes, given those two choices, I would go with option A as well.

[Biergott]

I’ve heard from two people now recently that it was “reported” that Rengifo is not a good teammate, is selfish and not good in the clubhouse.  Surprised me.  Seems like a fun guy, not quite the comedian Aybar was, but always in on the fun.

anyone know if there’s truth to this because that would help with decisions as well and potentially get us some value.

i hope it’s not though because he had a nice season and I was looking forward to him and soto in the middle.

[Blarg]

At this point I'd rather have Rengifo being an unlikable dick than some nice guy that can't hit worth shit. Not everybody in the clubhouse has to be liked if their talent requires respect. 

[DMVol]

9 hours ago, Trendon said:

My rough 2023 payroll projection (with arb projections and 0-3 players) for the Angels has them currently around $20M below their 2022 payroll level.

So there's not much room if payroll stays the same. And if Arte lowers the payroll, there may not be room for any additions.

And if Minasian hadn’t traded Iglesias, there wouldn’t be any room to spend….

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

And if Minasian hadn’t traded Iglesias, there wouldn’t be any room to spend….

Ah, right.  I actually forgot about dumping his salary. So if Moreno decides to keep the payroll at this year's level, there's actually more room than I said a few posts back.  (That said, I still see no reason for him NOT to cut payroll if he still controls the team in 2023).

[Angelsfan1984]

Not sure selling a shittier product is good for business…

[stormngt]

9 hours ago, Trendon said:

In an ideal world, I meant one where they could do "A" and "B."

Yes, given those two choices, I would go with option A as well.

So you think the Angels is the US treasury and can just print money?

Unless your the Dodgers or Yankees you need inexpensive players to play multiple positions to compliment your expensive ones.

[Angel Oracle]

21 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

Rengifo had a great season.  And Neto, I forgot about him.  If the SS job is an open competition, spring training will be fun.  

Rendon and Walsh will probably be back to claim 1B and 3B.  Soto and Rengifo are both better SS than Fletcher.  I'd like to see Fletcher as our version of Chris Taylor.  Play all over the diamond, some SS, 2B, 3B, LF when an OF needs a day off. 

LF is a problem, unless Adell figures out which sliders to hit, and which ones to lay off. 

Here’s thought for 2024 and beyond.

If Jackson is ready by then, and Walsh is still struggling, move Rendon to 1B and put Jackson at 3B?

Rendon will be 34 in 2024, and could probably use less wear and tear on the infield by then?

[Blarg]

Wear and tear? He is just a visitor to the infield as is. Any less and he'd be classified as a shut in.