As Angels Tumble, Arte defends his Turf

[Brandon]

I've met the kettle. He's kind of a dick.

I know and get it.

It's ok and cool for people with IP addresses to attack players (sometimes to a personal extent, how Sosh's weight has become relevant this year) or even each other, but when someone mentions it then they are a dick.

I get it dude.

[Angel Oracle]

But I think you hit the nail on the head with the Clemens and Cone signings, they contributed...thus they worked. If our signings just did an average or even a small declined average this whole topic is moot.

There was expected value with the deals.

I can definately see what you are saying.   They didn't have too many acquisitions that didn't work out in their glory era, and of course that is usually a given for successful teams.   The 2002 Halos saw most of their acquisitions work out well, at least for that season.

 

Whatever is behind the recent slump in acquisitions working out well is hopefully being worked on and also has a partial bad luck factor. 

[Lifetime]

The good news is that Steinbrenner learned from his mistakes, and that's how the mid 1990s through early 2000s dynasty developed for NYY.   

That's not how it happened AO. Steinbrenner didn't learn from his mistakes, he was removed from operations by the commissioner and that allowed the GM to take an active role in acquisitions and operations. It was then that the shift in philosophies took place. They still spent a boatload of money - they still do.

[Turd Ferguson]

I never understood the backlash against Arte.  The guy is spending money to try to improve the team.  Though in hindsight it hasn't worked out, I can think of much worse characteristics of an owner.

[T.G.]

Everyone.... well, almost everyone thinks they have the recipe for a championship team.  Winning is hard.  I think the Angels have made more than a reasonable effort to put a championship caliber team on the field.  There's a lot of reasons why this team has struggled this year and I don't think we can blame performances that are so far off the norm and a rash of injuries on either Dipoto or Scioscia.  As for Arte... I'm still happy he's the owner.

[mlbfan]

Arte is first and foremost a businessman, and thus looking to make a profit.  He has certainly done that with the Angels, increasing their value some 400% since purchasing them.  His genius is marketing.  He changed the name of the Angels to Los Angeles primarily to increase the market share of the Angels in a market dominated by the Dodgers.  While I did not and do not approve of that change, the Angels have made moderate gains in the Socal market and have increased visibility nationwide.  He is paying Pujols 250 million dollars to continue the overall branding of the Angels and to put people in the seats.  Pujols' best years are behind him.  He is being paid like his best years are ahead of him.  Arte is not stupid.  He knows this.  Pujols is primarily here for profit margins, his baseball ability comes second.  Hamilton is here because Arte believed this was a player in his prime.  The Rangers knew better.  Arte rolled the dice...and so far, lost.

 

Arte can say that winning trumps all.  The media, and certainly the fans, need to hear this.  But his spending decisions don't back that up.  The Angels farm system is one of the worst in baseball.  They are locked into ludicrous contracts for several years to come.  And yes, they lucked into Mike Trout.  Who knew?  Wilson and Weaver also have long term deals, and both likely will be declining pitchers over the next few years.

 

Praise Arte for his business acumen.  It is well deserved.  But on the field, the Angels will have difficulty contending for a championship for years to come.  As a fan, who cares what Forbes says about franchise values.  Jerry Jones has also increased the value of the Cowboys 4 fold since he bought them.  They have won 1 playoff game in 17 years.  Winning matters.  

[eligrba]

Even though the year has not gone as planned, having an over zealous owner making some mistakes is not the worst scenerio I can imagine.  I have always appreciated Arte's desire to field a championship team, but have not always agreed with the way it was being done.  I can certainly live with the underachieving players this year, in the hopes that they can turn it around next year.  I disagree that the team needs to dismantled and start over, there is too much underachieving talent on this team.

 

I am in it for the long haul......I still remember the efforts of Gene Autry in trying to build a winner.  Even though he was not successful, it was fun to be part of it.

[Brandon]

I can definately see what you are saying. They didn't have too many acquisitions that didn't work out in their glory era, and of course that is usually a given for successful teams. The 2002 Halos saw most of their acquisitions work out well, at least for that season.

Whatever is behind the recent slump in acquisitions working out well is hopefully being worked on and also has a partial bad luck factor.

Someone posted a good article about us being snakebitten and it kind of dissected the club and our state. Simply saying bad luck seems like a poor answer.

For some reason a few here continually look for reasons or answers, even if irrational, on why the club sucks or who's at fault.

But when you factor in slumping stars, the ridiculous amount of injuries, and a lot of missed or blown opportunities you get this situation.

I think the article I speak of even called it the perfect storm.

[Mudville]

From my understanding Arte went in with the high risk high reward combo pack with Pujols and Hamiltion. .

 

You cannot call MVP/All Star players high risk, that is just silly.

[T.G.]

Also... as I posted elsewhere...

 

this team leads the league in hitting into double plays and is tied for second with the most errors in baseball.  It's also given up the most stolen bases and has turned the fewest double plays.

 

The pitching staff walks people at an alarming rate... 5th most in baseball and is 28th in WHIP.

[Angel Oracle]

That's not how it happened AO. Steinbrenner didn't learn from his mistakes, he was removed from operations by the commissioner and that allowed the GM to take an active role in acquisitions and operations. It was then that the shift in philosophies took place. They still spent a boatload of money - they still do.

That is true, although wasn't it possible that Steinbrenner could have had some secret involvement (admittedly stretching here)? 

Anyway, when I look at what happened when they got away from player development being an important part of the team after the 1990s, I see that aside from the back-to-back WS appearances in 2008 and 2009, they have had little in the way of post-season success after 2001.

[mlbfan]

Everyone has injuries.  Just look at the Yankees (Jeter, Arod, Tex, Granderson, etc...) and Rangers (3 starting pitchers with extended DL stays).  Both teams having good seasons.  That's just to name a couple.  Angel injuries have been no worse than most other teams, and not nearly as bad as some others.

[Angel Oracle]

Also... as I posted elsewhere...

 

this team leads the league in hitting into double plays and is tied for second with the most errors in baseball.  It's also given up the most stolen bases and has turned the fewest double plays.

 

The pitching staff walks people at an alarming rate... 5th most in baseball and is 28th in WHIP.

This weekend reinforced that this has been a total breakdown in every area of the team.

[FabulousFabregas]

I met Moreno in 2009 and told him not to trade Napoli, swear to God.  If he'd listened to me we'd have at least avoided some of the problems in recent years.

[Lifetime]

Maybe you should have talked to Reagins instead since Moreno doesn't effect trades.

[Chuck]

Again, it's not Moreno's and Dipoto's fault that:

 

1. Blanton was dogshit for the first two months of the season. He was 10 times worse than his career averages.

2. Weaver got hurt and lost 3-4 MPH off his fastball.

3. Pujols had an injury that sapped his power and ability to run and hit until recently.

4. Hamilton swinging at pitches well out of the strikezone while not hammering mistakes over the fence.

5. The club's defense turned from one of the bests to one of the worst in the league.

6. Our offense sucking with RISP.

7. The lack of action on the bases while our own catchers can't throw out a runner to save their lives.

8. Madson's rehab went south and is MIA. Frieri is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when closing games out.

9. Scioscia has made some of the worst in game decisions I have seen since he has been manager of the team.

10. Aybar, Bourjos, Burnett and others have hit the DL during a time where items 1-9 was present. 

 

Write this season off guys. This team this season is cursed. Just enjoy the team you root for with expectations of a loss, but viewing interest in Trout, Bourjos and some others on the team that they will make something awesome happen before your eyes.

[fan_since79]

Good list, Chuck. A nice summation of the horribleness of this season so far.

 

But you're too kind in your description of "lack of speed on the bases". "Total stupidity" is more accurate.

[Chuck]

Good list, Chuck. A nice summation of the horribleness of this season so far.

 

But you're too kind in your description of "lack of speed on the bases". "Total stupidity" is more accurate.

 

I corrected it. Should read "Action on the bases". 

 

Major fail to see Trout, Aybar and Bourjos anchored so many times this season, only to see whoever is hitting behind them GIDP.

 

I don't know if it's the players fault or Scioscia's, but either way it's an EPIC FAIL. 

[Troll Daddy]

lol at Scioscia anchoring the speedsters on the bases. That is so wrong in many ways!

[Mark68]

That's steep, but we may have to strongly consider it if they also include Hank Aaron.

Only if they also throw in Eddie Matthews. And Chipper.

[Mark68]

Even though the year has not gone as planned, having an over zealous owner making some mistakes is not the worst scenerio I can imagine.  I have always appreciated Arte's desire to field a championship team, but have not always agreed with the way it was being done.  I can certainly live with the underachieving players this year, in the hopes that they can turn it around next year.  I disagree that the team needs to dismantled and start over, there is too much underachieving talent on this team.

 

I am in it for the long haul......I still remember the efforts of Gene Autry in trying to build a winner.  Even though he was not successful, it was fun to be part of it.

Nope. Having an owner mortgage his team to pay for his lifestyle, then getting a divorce and going bankrupt is pretty much the worst scenario.

 

Second would  be having an owner get duped into investing millions of dollars in a Ponzi scheme with a guy appropriately named Madoff.

[Angelsjunky]

AJ, I always respected your logic but bringing in Albert Pujols for what he used to do was a huge mistake on the field. Prince Fielder was the better choice for a longterm on the field investment. Pujols was brought in because of his "star power" legendary past. I wish we could have Albert start his 10 year service contract now and then have him try to start playing at age 42. He would then bow out gracefully.

 

LOL at "respected." Anyhow, I hear what you are saying and agree that it was a bad on-the-field investment. If I could take it back I would, and despite what he says I imagine Arte would feel the same. All I was trying to do was point out that Pujols' value--as an all-time great Latino player in a heavily Latino market--goes beyond his stat sheet.

 

It also takes a special kind of asshole to take sports so seriously they get personal or attack him. It really is the AW crowd he mentions and why a lot of newer people don't post here...why would you when AO or the other failos dismantle every thread.

I actually remember people calling him cheap because he didn't secure Matt Clement, Tex, or Crawford over the years, then he breaks the bank to bring these kind of stars here and everyone is on here professing their love for the greatest owner in baseball, but when the players have a down year the fans start giving Arte grief.

Fans can be the worst.

 

I agree with you, Brandon, at least about the first part, but I also think there's a place for venting. We all love this team and it gets frustrating. Not to mention that I personally enjoy a good ole' fit of Angel Oracle apoplexy; it actually softens the losses a bit (AO, you've got to get on your game...you seem to be mellowing out).

 

Arte: "I read the site all the time."

 

He told me this 5 years ago and said it again last spring while in Tempe.

 

Out of curiosity, Chuck, how does the activity level of this site compare to other Angels sites? I assume this is the most active dedicated Angels forum on the web? I'm happy hear so have never checked around...I'm faithful to you, Chuck

 

The good news is that Steinbrenner learned from his mistakes, and that's how the mid 1990s through early 2000s dynasty developed for NYY.    Here's to Arte learning from his mistakes, and getting this franchise back to being an annual contender and with enough post-season participation through a more balanced approach while still being willing to spend where really needed and in a smarter way.

 

Hmm...I think this is half-true. As Lifetime said, it was more that Steinbrenner got out of the way. But I think you and Lifetime are both pointing to the same thing, that the Angels would probably be better off if Arte left baseball operations to Dipoto.

 

Arte is first and foremost a businessman, and thus looking to make a profit.  He has certainly done that with the Angels, increasing their value some 400% since purchasing them.  His genius is marketing.  He changed the name of the Angels to Los Angeles primarily to increase the market share of the Angels in a market dominated by the Dodgers.  While I did not and do not approve of that change, the Angels have made moderate gains in the Socal market and have increased visibility nationwide.  He is paying Pujols 250 million dollars to continue the overall branding of the Angels and to put people in the seats.  Pujols' best years are behind him.  He is being paid like his best years are ahead of him.  Arte is not stupid.  He knows this.  Pujols is primarily here for profit margins, his baseball ability comes second.  Hamilton is here because Arte believed this was a player in his prime.  The Rangers knew better.  Arte rolled the dice...and so far, lost.

 

Arte can say that winning trumps all.  The media, and certainly the fans, need to hear this.  But his spending decisions don't back that up.  The Angels farm system is one of the worst in baseball.  They are locked into ludicrous contracts for several years to come.  And yes, they lucked into Mike Trout.  Who knew?  Wilson and Weaver also have long term deals, and both likely will be declining pitchers over the next few years.

 

Praise Arte for his business acumen.  It is well deserved.  But on the field, the Angels will have difficulty contending for a championship for years to come.  As a fan, who cares what Forbes says about franchise values.  Jerry Jones has also increased the value of the Cowboys 4 fold since he bought them.  They have won 1 playoff game in 17 years.  Winning matters.  

 

Nice post. It made me wonder: is it possible to run a baseball franchise and be successful financially completely aside from how many games the team wins? Or rather, is there a point in which the team is good enough to be in the discussion and keep fans interested, and thus the business side is taken care of?

 

Again, it's not Moreno's and Dipoto's fault that:

 

1. Blanton was dogshit for the first two months of the season. He was 10 times worse than his career averages.

2. Weaver got hurt and lost 3-4 MPH off his fastball.

3. Pujols had an injury that sapped his power and ability to run and hit until recently.

4. Hamilton swinging at pitches well out of the strikezone while not hammering mistakes over the fence.

5. The club's defense turned from one of the bests to one of the worst in the league.

6. Our offense sucking with RISP.

7. The lack of action on the bases while our own catchers can't throw out a runner to save their lives.

8. Madson's rehab went south and is MIA. Frieri is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when closing games out.

9. Scioscia has made some of the worst in game decisions I have seen since he has been manager of the team.

10. Aybar, Bourjos, Burnett and others have hit the DL during a time where items 1-9 was present. 

 

Write this season off guys. This team this season is cursed. Just enjoy the team you root for with expectations of a loss, but viewing interest in Trout, Bourjos and some others on the team that they will make something awesome happsuperen before your eyes.

 

I agree, nice list. But you continue to take all pressure off Arte and Jerry. They built this team, Chuck. I agree with what you're saying but think it needs to be balanced by Arte and Jerry taking responsibility for what have turned out to be many bad moves. As I said early on with my infamous "Dipoto Grade Card"--which has turned out to be more accurate than I thought, unfortunately--the proof is in the pudding. Sure, hindsight is 20-20 but its Jerry's job to be able to project these eventualities. I'm not will to write this off to superstition. This team was poorly constructed - heavy on aging (former) superstars, mediocre starters, and erratic relievers. Dipoto's various gambles didn't pan out, for the most part. Even his trading crown jewel which we all lauded him for, Frieri, has turned into not much more than a Fernando Rodney/Brian Fuentes type pitcher. At some point we have to look at what is rather than what should have been.

 

That said, I want to see how Dipoto responds. If I'm Arte I see how Dipoto rights the ship; if this team is in contention next year, heading towards 90+ wins, then Dipoto deserves to keep his job. If not, he's done.

[yk9001]

Arte may in fact be a great businessman.  But having the value of his franchise increase during his ownership is not necessarily an indication of such acumen.

 

Frank McCourt is practically the biggest blunderer we all have seen in pro sports ownership.  But his is practically drowning in cash from the increase in value, and subsequent sale, of his franchise.

[fan_since79]

I corrected it. Should read "Action on the bases". 

 

Major fail to see Trout, Aybar and Bourjos anchored so many times this season, only to see whoever is hitting behind them GIDP.

 

I don't know if it's the players fault or Scioscia's, but either way it's an EPIC FAIL. 

 

There's also the frequent boneheaded blunders running the bases, some of them epically dumb.

 

It's funny how no one is ever held accountable for all this.

[stormngt]

I have to respect Arte.  He has made  every effort to make this team better.  Has the moves been successful?  No, but he has tried.  As a long time Angel fan I can tell you with frustration how it seemed like our ownership was content in just having us lose?  Or we could have an Owner like the Marlins who blows the team up at will, or how about an owner like the Royals who con't care if they win or not and just stay put!

 

He is right, the Angel management was ridiculed for being cheap when he passed on Crawford and Tiex.  Then he goes out and signs the two best hitters in the next two free agent class.  You can say they are bad moves, but the man is trying to win and he is trying to win right now!

 

That said, anyone who says they believe Pujols was going to struggle as much as he has in year one and two of his contract are just lying!  Yes, many felt it was a bad contract, but their complaints would be on the later stages of the contract would be a disaster, not now!

 

Also, anyone who felt that the five time all star and former MVP Hamilton would all a sudden bat 210 is also lying.  The critics of the contract was that it was too long for a guy who is injury prone.  Guess what????? it hasn't been injuries!

 

Finally, there is a lot of criticism that these contracts will paralyze the Angels for the next five years.  Well that is really to be determined!  I have heard countless times that the GMJ contract would kill the Angels ability to  make moves.  Or that the Wells contract would do that...or that Pujols contract will do that.  Well despite the loss money down the drain Moreno has not stop trying to improve the team.  He is one of the best owners in the game and we are lucky he owns the Angels!