Is there a pitcher in baseball who throws slower than weaver?

[mulwin444]

Yep...Waaayyy down

 

Or maybe it's about mechanics and location considering both pitches that were hit out were mistakes up in the zone.  I'll look at a few more starts before declaring him "stick-a-fork-in-him" done

[Angelsjunky]

OK mulwin, I respect your opinion and am willing to give Weaver the benefit of the doubt - I'd also like to see at least a few more starts before writing him off. That said, Weaver may be a case where FIP is correct. Here's his FIP over the last few years, from his career best in 2010 through 2013 (but not including tonight's start): 3.06, 3.80, 4.18, 4.21.

 

Remember that FIP is meant to be an indicator of future performance. The trend has been consistently down and I think FIP has accurately predicted his decline.

Fangraphs has a disturbing write-up from yesterday:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/jered-weavers-declining-skills/

[full circle]

You do that. I'm not calling him done.

[mulwin444]

Okay, who can argue with FIPS, I guess...I just know he had two of his best seasons in 2011 and 2012 when he is supposedly declining.  To me, he pitches to contact, relies on his defense and is developing into more of a pitcher.  I could be wrong but I'll let him get back into a groove before declaring judgement.

[Ohtaniland]

Koufax retired at age 30.

[Angelsjunky]

Okay, who can argue with FIPS, I guess...I just know he had two of his best seasons in 2011 and 2012 when he is supposedly declining.  To me, he pitches to contact, relies on his defense and is developing into more of a pitcher.  I could be wrong but I'll let him get back into a groove before declaring judgement.

 

I think the problem is similar to Haren - because he (and Haren too) is a pitcher and not a thrower, he doesn't rely on raw stuff. But because of that there is little room for that stuff to decline because its not that great to begin with. Even a crafty pitcher can't succeed with mediocre stuff, and Jered's stuff has been trending downward.

[mulwin444]

I think the problem is similar to Haren - because he (and Haren too) is a pitcher and not a thrower, he doesn't rely on raw stuff. But because of that there is little room for that stuff to decline because its not that great to begin with. Even a crafty pitcher can't succeed with mediocre stuff, and Jered's stuff has been trending downward.

Haren threw harder then Jered but had zero movement on his fastball.  Haren issue is he can't throw his splitter effectively anymore and batters are laying off it now when it used to be his out pitch.  They are not really the same pitcher

[VariousCrap]

LMAO at FIP.  Jeez...

[Jay]

Weaver is one smart dude.

[mancini79]

Jered does something rare in baseball these days and shows loyalty to a franchise in signing a club friendly extension. In return fans show zero loyalty back to that player...which unfortunately is all toooooo common in baseball these days. Sorry, but some of the conversation in this thread is a bunch of crap. Jered has earned the benefit of the doubt.

[tdawg87]

It's a lot easier to think with your heart and not your brain.

[mulwin444]

I've never actually thought with my heart...how do you do that?

[Justabitoutside]

I can't believe fans trying to put blame on his extension. There's not one person on this board that wouldn't have extended him at that club friendly contract.

[rageous]

Weaver should start throwing knucklers.

Probably the only way to be effective throwing mid 80s heaters.

[EDinTUSTIN]

Jered does something rare in baseball these days and shows loyalty to a franchise in signing a club friendly extension. In return fans show zero loyalty back to that player...which unfortunately is all toooooo common in baseball these days. Sorry, but some of the conversation in this thread is a bunch of crap. Jered has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I agree, Mancini. I can't say that I am not concerned, but Weaver has earned the right to have the benefit of the doubt.

[Docwaukee]

Jered's struggles his last two starts haven't been because of velocity but location.

 

Is there more room for error when you throw 88-90 instead of 85-87?  sure, but he couldn't locate tonight and still only gave up 4 runs over six ip.  Any other pitcher would have gotten absolutely creamed (see Tommy Hanson yesterday).  He may not be the old Weaver with that velocity, but he'll be find once he finds his command again. 

[Tyler]

I don't know. You can get away with more mistakes when your velocity is up. He used to be able to blow by people at 89-90 just above the belt. Now the batters sit on everything soft and pounce on those 85 mph high ones.

[SmallSampleSize]

Eyeballs tell you the quality of the stuff is wayyyyy down from where it was.

 

 

Yap.

[Docwaukee]

I don't know. You can get away with more mistakes when your velocity is up. He used to be able to blow by people at 89-90 just above the belt. Now the batters sit on everything soft and pounce on those 85 mph high ones.

but even the soft stuff was over the heart of the plate tonight and that's how he got beat.  that is very un Weaver like at any velocity.  I agree that at 85-87 he's gonna have some blow up games and at higher rate than he used to, but he will be better than he was tonight. 

 

Certainly, it doesn't bode well if he ends up more of a middle of the rotation guy for the next 2-3 years, so the team is gonna have to make some tough decisions about where that leaves them, but he's still gonna be very capable. 

[Tyler]

but even the soft stuff was over the heart of the plate tonight and that's how he got beat.  that is very un Weaver like at any velocity.  I agree that at 85-87 he's gonna have some blow up games and at higher rate than he used to, but he will be better than he was tonight. 

 

Certainly, it doesn't bode well if he ends up more of a middle of the rotation guy for the next 2-3 years, so the team is gonna have to make some tough decisions about where that leaves them, but he's still gonna be very capable. 

He wasn't even that bad today, but when he is bad its going to be like Blanton and it's gonna go over the fence. The triple should have been caught. I think we'll start to see some ~30 HR seasons from Weaver, and yeah, he won't be the #1 much longer. This team needs some top of the rotation guys and the only players that can net us those, since this past offseason, is Trumbo and Bourjos.

[axalar]

Weaver should start throwing knucklers.

Probably the only way to be effective throwing mid 80s heaters.

 

I like it. Haha. Just toss it into his repertoire and see what happens.

[sneaky_flute]

about weaver's discount:

 

he accepted the discount because he was threatened with a trade and wanted to remain close to his family. i'm not saying it hasn't happened, but taking a discount out of sheer loyalty to an organization is extremely rare.

[Sciosciapath]

Colin Kaepernick...

Nevermind, Kaep was clocked in at 87 mph when he threw out the first pitch at the Giants game.

49ers QB throws a better fastball than Weaver.

Wake up DiPoto

[Erstad Grit]

I'd take Weaver at 85-87 over 75% of the SP in MLB. 

[Lifetime]

about weaver's discount:

 

he accepted the discount because he was threatened with a trade and wanted to remain close to his family. i'm not saying it hasn't happened, but taking a discount out of sheer loyalty to an organization is extremely rare.

You're wrong