In what appears to be a lost season what are you looking forward to see happen for the rest of the campaign?

[BTH]

Trade/DFA all the veterans on expiring contracts, sell high on some players, play the kids, and try and get the veterans on multi-year contracts back on track.

Trade: Iglesias, Syndergaard.

Sell High: Ohtani, Ward

DFA: Villar

SP: Detmers, Junk, Sandoval, Silseth, Suarez

RP: Barría, Loup, Ortega, Peguero, Quijada, Tepera, Wantz, Warren

Lineup: Stassi, Walsh, Stefanic, Thaiss, Rengifo, Marsh, Trout, Adell, MacMinnon

Bench: Wallach, Velazquez, Harrison, Thomas.

[UndertheHalo]

16 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don’t think we know what the Angels could get unless they are open to trading him.  I would certainly be wide open to find out (versus waving it off as “we need to hold on to this guy”).

Sure explore trades for a bunch of guys. 

[Jason]

39 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I mean for Ward what are they going to get ? If it’s a couple of low minors prospects then I don’t understand how this moves along the project to make Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani winners with the Angels.  I don’t think Ward is getting near major league ready premium prospects.  

Obviously you don’t trade him for a pile of junk 

[Angel Oracle]

58 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Rengifo has been a little asshole refusing to work any walks. The last 12 games he has a. 287 batting average but his OBP is the exact same with zero walks. In the previous 94 plate appearances he has a total of 2 walks. This is bullshit from a light hitting middle Infielder. He is one of the reasons the Angels offense sucks. 

I wouldn’t call him light hitting, since gap power is there (6 doubles and 2 HRs in past 94 PAs).

And going back to 3 weeks ago, the BA is .304 in 79 at bats.

He does clearly need to work more on plate discipline, for when the hitting slumps happen.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

Something to consider:

Some talent is certainly there.

They aren’t close to 24-13 good or close to 11-31 bad.

Part of the issue currently is being stuck in a losing mode.   The team wide confidence is probably not very good.

Let’s see what happens if they go on say a 4 or 5 game winning streak, to see how they play after that.

Any blowing up of positions should be after the season, based on the rest of this season.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I wouldn’t call him light hitting, since gap power is there (6 doubles and 2 HRs in past 94 PAs).

And going back to 3 weeks ago, the BA is .304 in 79 at bats.

He does clearly need to work more on plate discipline, for when the hitting slumps happen.

AO, this guy is the description of light hitting but he thinks he has power. Those 2 home runs amount to squat when you look at how many less than warning track outs he creates. In fact, 2 home runs over 94 plate appearances would amount to about 11 home runs over an entire season. That's not power hitting, that's accidental contact. 

 

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

AO, this guy is the description of light hitting but he thinks he has power. Those 2 home runs amount to squat when you look at how many less than warning track outs he creates. In fact, 2 home runs over 94 plate appearances would amount to about 11 home runs over an entire season. That's not power hitting, that's accidental contact. 

 

For a 2B, projecting those numbers over a full season, it’s a solid 35-40 doubles and 12 HRs.

How many regular 2B put up at least 50 XBHs in a season?

He just needs to tweak the plate patience, and maybe then the OPS settles in around .750, solid for a 2B, to go with his much improved 2B defense.

[Chuck]

2 hours ago, True Grich said:

I look at each game as a separate entertainment opportunity.... I have the "I wonder what I'll see today" attitude.... It's still baseball and Ohtani definitely makes things interesting.

As far as "looking forward" - I'm more curious about whether or not Fletcher can make a meaningful contribution, whether or not Adell makes it back to the majors this year, If Marsh is going to be good or not, how good Detmers can actually be, etc., etc.

 

Good post @True Grich

[Torridd]

Adell come up. light it up, and stay up!

[Torridd]

A 50-game winning streak.

[UndertheHalo]

52 minutes ago, Jason said:

Obviously you don’t trade him for a pile of junk 

Well it doesn’t have to be a pile of junk.  But it could also not make sense to trade him for interesting young prospects.  As ever the Angels have to figure out what they want to do.  They have to commit to building a legit major league team around the good players they have - which will cost Arte a good bit more money then he’s been willing to spend - or they need to just get on with an actual rebuild.  They’re at a crossroads here it seems like.   

[Jason]

33 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Well it doesn’t have to be a pile of junk.  But it could also not make sense to trade him for interesting young prospects.  As ever the Angels have to figure out what they want to do.  They have to commit to building a legit major league team around the good players they have - which will cost Arte a good bit more money then he’s been willing to spend - or they need to just get on with an actual rebuild.  They’re at a crossroads here it seems like.   

[Clark W Griswold]

They can trade whoever they want and it wouldn’t bother me. This group just isn’t cutting it.

My interest is in seeing if they can develop guys like Bachman.

I would love it if Bally’s started showing the Trash Panda’s games instead of the Angels.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Clark W Griswold

[Angels 1961]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Rengifo has been a little asshole refusing to work any walks. The last 12 games he has a. 287 batting average but his OBP is the exact same with zero walks. In the previous 94 plate appearances he has a total of 2 walks. This is bullshit from a light hitting middle Infielder. He is one of the reasons the Angels offense sucks. 

Tell that to Hubs

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Good post @True Grich

I make bet with friend on how many strikeouts Anghel batters will each game. If he takes the under when halo batters strikeout it's not as painful

[Slegnaac]

Bring up Adell to platoon with Marsh

Let Stefanic and McKinnon stay and get regular at bats.  Even if that means Rengifo goes back down to relearn how to draw a walk. 

 

 

[fanfromday1]

4 hours ago, Trendon said:

Trade/DFA all the veterans on expiring contracts, sell high on some players, play the kids, and try and get the veterans on multi-year contracts back on track.

Trade: Iglesias, Syndergaard.

Sell High: Ohtani, Ward

DFA: Villar

SP: Detmers, Junk, Sandoval, Silseth, Suarez

RP: Barría, Loup, Ortega, Peguero, Quijada, Tepera, Wantz, Warren

Lineup: Stassi, Walsh, Stefanic, Thaiss, Rengifo, Marsh, Trout, Adell, MacMinnon

Bench: Wallach, Velazquez, Harrison, Thomas.

I'm as discussed with this team as much as you are, but you can't get rid of the 1st four players that you mentioned. I think it's time to start building for next year and forget about the rest of this one, and I believe that these four guys could be as good, or even better than the players the Angels replace them with.

Iglesias - He's choked in several games this last month, but up until then he was one of the better closers in the AL. Unless we get a couple of really good young flame-throwers in return, lets wait and see if he rebounds. Then make a decision in the off season.

Syndergaard and Ohtani - Thor is coming off of surgery, and so is Ohtani. Because the Angels didn't want to over work them this year they went to a 6 man rotation. I think that next year we may return to a 5 man rotation, which would make the rotation that much stronger. (No weak, overmatched 6th man).

Ward - Yes, Ward played over his head the first 5 or 6 weeks of the season. But he is still more consistent than Adell will ever be. I think Adell (as well as Rengifo & Fletcher), believe that taking a walk is a failed at-bat. (However, to be fair, I think the rest of the Angel line-up would rather strike out than stand-on-base and wait there for the next batter to strike out. They would much rather be sitting in the dugout eating sunflower seeds before Iglesias throws all the seeds back onto the field again).      

True, this team needs some new blood. From the front office all the way down to the coach's and a few new players. But some of the corner stones for a successful team may be in place already. The time to panic is past. It happened during the long losing streak. Now is the time to make a few changes, not a complete overhaul. 

[WicketMaiden]

I'd be happy just to see some old baseball fundamentals from the Angels. Moving runners and manufacturing runs, good base running, situational hitting, bunting and stealing, working deeper counts, competent defence, that sort of thing. It doesn't have to be elite, just solid enough to keep the team in the game now and again when Trout and Ohtani are on off-days / bad days / cold streaks etc.  

[ettin]

Frankly, we need to see how the team plays through the rest of July. If they go on a winning streak and improve from their current 5% chance of a Wild Card slot, it would not be unsurprising to see them turn around and become buyers, possibly. Really just depends on where they are at in 3 weeks.

Beyond that you don't tear it all down. You don't move Iglesias whom you just signed to a multi-year deal, that is counter-productive in all likelihood. You just don't blow it up, you continue to build forward, which this team needs and can accomplish. If we end up as sellers, you simply move the short-term assets only. Then in the off-season if you have an opportunity to upgrade, then you might move one or more longer-term assets for an established, productive player. Extend Ohtani and do the other things that will make the Angels contenders in 2023 and beyond.

Personally, Ward has shown great bat production and hasn't overly hurt in the outfield. Adell would be fantastic depth so do you move one of them or do you keep both? Are there other ways to upgrade pitching for example? Lots of permutations and I am not sure we need to make drastic changes to achieve our goals.

Everyone likes the fun thought process of making a big trade, but I think the Angels need to be really shrewd and careful about what they move and why.

[Angel Oracle]

Surprisingly, the Halos are only 7 games back of the 3rd WC, despite the 11-32 collapse.

Granted, there are SIX teams in front of the Halos for that 3rd WC spot.   Jays, M’s, Cleveland, O’s, ChiSox, and Rangers

Edited July 12, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[BTH]

3 hours ago, fanfromday1 said:

3 hours ago, fanfromday1 said:

  True, this team needs some new blood. From the front office all the way down to the coach's and a few new players. But some of the corner stones for a successful team may be in place already. The time to panic is past. It happened during the long losing streak. Now is the time to make a few changes, not a complete overhaul. 

 

Syndergaard is a pending free agent, so you can’t just pencil him in for next season.

Trading Ward allows you to use his value to replenish at other areas of need, which you can’t do with Adell at his lowest value.

Trading Iglesias also clears a big chunk of salary that can be better utilized, that’s the key in such a deal IMO.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

You don't move Iglesias whom you just signed to a multi-year deal, that is counter-productive in all likelihood. You just don't blow it up, you continue to build forward, which this team needs and can accomplish.

Thank you.

[Duren, Duren]

2 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

I'd be happy just to see some old baseball fundamentals from the Angels. Moving runners and manufacturing runs, good base running, situational hitting, bunting and stealing, working deeper counts, competent defence, that sort of thing. It doesn't have to be elite, just solid enough to keep the team in the game now and again when Trout and Ohtani are on off-days / bad days / cold streaks etc.  

Exactly. My pet peeve. You need complimentary players and teamwork to be successful. At times it looks like the Angels are just a collection of individuals rather than a tight team. 

The basic fundamentals need to be prioritized more by the front office and taught well within the organization. It should be dealt with at spring training, but also reassessed during the season. Hire specialist outside coaches if necessary for seminars and input. 

 You see teams that aren't great like Baltimore use the entire field and show patience. Average players can be productive if they are smart situationally. At the plate, on the bases, in the field and on the mound. 

Way too much dependence on Trout and Ohtani. 

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

7 games back in WC, half season left still possible however unlikely...

[Docwaukee]

people may not believe me, but this team isn't as far off from winning as some might think.  

Minasian just did a crap job for the most part.  Spending lots of money on peripheral pen pieces and ignoring depth.  Iglesias isn't going anywhere.  And an elite reliever is actually the one spot in the pen where spending makes some sense because those guys aren't as typically subject to classic reliever volatility.  The Thor deal wasn't bad but they absolutely need to trade him if they have the chance.  It's kinda the whole point of a 1yr big money deal.  If you're out of it, use that to get some value somewhere.  Especially considering you gave up a pick.  

The Lorenzen deal isn't that bad even though people are down on him right now.  He's been going through a bad stretch but he's got pretty good stuff and can be very good at times.  A solid 4ish type that can almost be in the 3 range if you squint.  Teams will see value in that for the second half.  And he's pretty cheap on a relative basis.  So they need to trade him as well.  

If they can get at least 1 top 100ish type and a few additional solid prospects for those two then I'd be pretty happy.  And let me add a comment on something that has absolutely bugged the crap out of me over the last several years.  If you make a trade for prospects, get the absolute best you can regardless of their proximity to the majors.  Stop trying to get guys just based on whether they'll help soon.  Give me three guys with upside in rookie ball that you've scouted and think highly of over some reliever in AA.  Just add value to the overall org and stop with the year to year mlb team BS.  

I want to see Stefanic and Rengifo everyday for the rest of the year.  And I really don't have much interest in having Fletcher go back to being an everyday player.  Rengifo has been better but I agree that a lot of what he's done recently isn't totally sustainable although I will say that he hits the ball hard.  So sort of a mixed bag but I'd like to keep seeing him to determine which direction it's gonna go.  

Stefanic can just flat out hit.  He has good at bats.  There's gonna be a book on him soon but I think he'll be fine.  I haven't been watching much but haven't heard much about his defense.  Couple hundred PA by seasons end will give us a better picture.  no complete, but better.  

I would give fletch the super util role.  A little LF, and most of his IF abs at 3b.  I also wouldn't give up Villar just yet.  Give the guy a chance to get acclimated.  He's had some solid periods of success or of at least being serviceable.  But don't expect more than that.  He's not a starter but probably the best option in a platoon with fletch.  More so because Fletch has been decently successful vs. lefties and Villar's splits are pretty neutral.  I'd probably throw Fletch in LF a decent chunk and work matchups for Marsh if they're not going to send him down.  

If possible, I would trade Suzuki for a bag of balls and bring up Thaiss.  Let's see what we got there.  Not overly confident it's much but he's actually a decently versatile guy and might have a halfway decent bat as a second C.  He actually showed  a bit of promise at the plate in 2019 and only has 35 major league PA since then.  

I would try to ditch Tepera's contract on someone if at all possible.  Don't care about the return.  Just get rid of the money.  

I have a little more hope for Loup for next year.  But if someone make a decent offer, I'd move him as well although I'd want something decent in return.  

I would not trade Ward unless I got a king's ransom.  He was over his skis earlier in the year, but he's not even arb eligible till 2024.  And OF stability is a problem right now.  He's the perfect guy to keep in that he's likely to be fairly consistent.  Good defender.  Good at bats.  Good speed.  Kind of a dunsky sometimes but underrated overall as he's likely always been.  

There no way I'm trading Ohtani.  I'm not a star f'er by any means, but the dude is the most valuable player in mlb right now.  Pay him and move on.   whatever that number is, I'm subtracting 25m from it as a legit expense because he probably brings that to the franchise on a yearly.  at least.  

My rotation after Thor and Lorenzen are trade - Ohtani, Sandy, Detmers, Barria, Suarez and Silseth.  I think Chase needs a bit more time in the minors, but I also think he can handle the bigs and learn here as he goes.  I'd also be giving Daniel some starts through the end of the year.  

And then just a rotating audition for the pen.  

I don't really care to see Duffy ever again.  And frankly he same applies to MacKinnon for me.  I know he's a bit of a fan favorite but meh.  I'd rather see more of Harrison and I'm not really much of a fan of his either.  Adell up getting semi regular at bats would be my pref at this point depending on Fletch's return.  

And I still think it was utterly stupid to let Davis go.  He probably wasn't going to be anything special but certainly a guy worth keeping and taking a chance on.  

Overall, it would be an exercise in determining my lineup and pitching depth for next year.  And getting as much org value as I can for anyone that isn't tied down for 2023.  

And I'll throw this out even though it's not relevant to the discussion here, but if I were Perry (and maybe he's already done this), I would go to Arte and show him a proforma where I took 10m from the major league budget and put it toward hiring as many f'n smart people as I could to fill the org in as many spots as I could.  Major and Minor league scouting, player development, the draft, international, analytics, just people sitting next to me who can bring ideas and bring this org back to what the primary focus should be.  As opposed to living year to year on the major league roster.  

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it.