Ruminations on the Middle Infield

[BTH]

17 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It seems like Duffy now has fallen behind Mayfield on the middle infield depth chart and his only role is 1B v LHPs. I wonder if they would give more of a look to Ward for that? Or else just let Walsh see if he can figure out lefties. 

Why has Duffy fallen down on the depth chart?

He has hit well in his limited playing time and he has a guaranteed contract, unlike Mayfield/Velazquez/Wade.

[BTH]

If all of the position players on the MLB roster remain healthy when Fletcher gets back, I think the Angels will have to send Velazquez back down to AAA.

Fletcher is basically Velazquez-lite: a phenomenal defender who has had struggles hitting. Fletcher has the leg up over Velazquez, though, because Fletcher has hit well in the past ('19-'20) and has a guaranteed contract, while Velazquez has options and a non-guaranteed contract.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Just now, Trendon said:

Why has Duffy fallen down on the depth chart?

He has hit well in his limited playing time and he has a guaranteed contract, unlike Mayfield/Velazquez/Wade.

I guess this is sort of where he always was, just playing against LHPs, which instantly knocks him to the bottom because they are only 30 percent of the pitchers. He’s done exactly what they want from him. They just don’t want much from him. 
 

And I suppose he also provides a safety net if someone else is hurt or terrible, but so far Wade has been very good and Velazquez has been very good defensively. 

[BTH]

Just now, Jeff Fletcher said:

I guess this is sort of where he always was, just playing against LHPs, which instantly knocks him to the bottom because they are only 30 percent of the pitchers. He’s done exactly what they want from him. They just don’t want much from him. 
 

And I suppose he also provides a safety net if someone else is hurt or terrible, but so far Wade has been very good and Velazquez has been very good defensively. 

Is Fletcher going to return this weekend? It'll be fascinating to see the corresponding move when he does return.

Maddon seems to really like Velazquez, but it seems like he's the odd man out when Fletcher returns, barring an injury or a reliever being optioned.

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Is Fletcher going to return this weekend? It'll be fascinating to see the corresponding move when he does return.

Maddon seems to really like Velazquez, but it seems like he's the odd man out when Fletcher returns, barring an injury or a reliever being optioned.

He’s eligible on Friday and they thought he would be close. He may need a short rehab assignment. But he should be back in the next 3-4 days. 
 

And it will be interesting to see what they do. 
 

If you put a gun to my head right now I’d say Mayfield gets optioned. 

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

If you put a gun to my head right now I’d say Mayfield gets optioned. 

Hmm.

Mayfield pretty much only plays vs. LHP and the Angels may only face 1 RHP over the next week, so I guess it makes sense in that regard, but he has absolutely raked (1.029 OPS) in his limited sample this season (28 PA's).

[ThisismineScios]

I think it would be different if Velazquez had any pop or was a great bunter (ahem). You could then justify leaving him in the lineup. But he's just a wasted AB. He doesn't do anything on offense. 

[Blarg]

5 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm not suggesting that Velazquez is anything close to Ozzie Smith, but if you look at his stats, the Wizard didn't surpass the 100 wRC+ (league average) watermark until his age 30 season, and then he was a solidly average plus hitter for eight out of the next nine years.

There is so little defensive stats kept in Smith's day that applying any judgement of his defensive skills is a fools game. His career started in the late 70's, about the time Bill James started dissecting baseball statistics but was focused on offense.  

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

You're not including Ohtani. He'd either take the spot of one of the IF or relievers.

Meaning, it will be:

2 C, 4 OF, Ohtani + 5 starters

And one of the following two options:

• 8 relievers and 6 infielders
• 7 relievers and 7 infielders

I was initially thinking the latter, but Jeff Fletcher implied the former might be the route they go. Meaning, one of Mayfield or Velazquez is demoted once David Fletcher gets back.

Yeah need 8 in BP so one of INF will go. I really like Velazquez and I think Fletcher is on thin ice. Cannot just play him because he signed that contract. Players that give you best chance to win need to play.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

There is so little defensive stats kept in Smith's day that applying any judgement of his defensive skills is a fools game. His career started in the late 70's, about the time Bill James started dissecting baseball statistics but was focused on offense.  

Yes, I know - but wRC+ is an offensive stat, and my point about him stands: He was a great defender from early on and had value no badly he hit, but only become a plus hitter around the time he was 30. 

[Angels 1961]

3 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He’s eligible on Friday and they thought he would be close. He may need a short rehab assignment. But he should be back in the next 3-4 days. 
 

And it will be interesting to see what they do. 
 

If you put a gun to my head right now I’d say Mayfield gets optioned. 

Off this subject did Angels fly home right after game on Wednesday? They have everything packed up and leave from stadium?

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Off this subject did Angels fly home right after game on Wednesday? They have everything packed up and leave from stadium?

Yes. They always fly immediately after the last game of a series. 

[Swordsman78]

On 4/20/2022 at 1:18 PM, Angelsjunky said:

While it is probably the weakest element of the team--barring, perhaps, the lower half of the bullpen--the infield shuffle is one of the more interesting dangling question marks, as we go deeper into the season.

While we're only 12 games into the season, or 7.4%, some tentative observations are:

Velazquez is the best defensive shortstop on the team. And he's good - maybe very good. He plays with authority, fields cleanly, and just looks smooth. Evidently Joe Maddon agrees, because he's started him every night since he was called up. The big question is whether he'll be able to hit well enough to justify regular duties. So far he's been terrible (55 wRC+), but he has walked a few times and, well, it's early.

Maddon loves Wade. And it is hard to blame him; he's been rewarded with excellent performance (and a 145 wRC+) and a feeling of energy on the base-paths (despite some blunders). Wade is also one of only two Angels--along with Ohtani--to play in every game so far.

Maddon doesn't love Duffy. Or, at least, less than expected. It seems a bit strange that Duffy has fewer PA than Mayfield, Wade, and Velazquez - and presumably would have fewer than Fletcher if he hadn't gotten hurt. Duffy has the highest floor of the infielders, with a career .284 BA and .342 OBP, but he lacks power and speed, and is only adequate defensively. That said, all the middle infielders--aside from Wade--are playing a similar amount, but it does seem that Duffy is behind Wade and Velazquez on the depth chart, at least for now.

Further Considerations...

What about when Fletcher comes back? That remains to be seen. If Velazquez can get his BA up over the Mendoza line, it will be tempting to go with the defense-first combo of Velazquez and Fletcher, but they also might be the weakest hitters, unless we get the Fletch of Old. It might also be that Maddon continues a platoon, with five guys getting regular playing time - but who is the odd man out, when Fletch returns and the rosters reduce to 26?

Oh yeah, the guys in AAA. Luis Rengifo, Michael Stefanic, and Brendon Davis have all gotten off to strong starts in Salt Lake, so there's some depth to draw from. On the other hand, it is hard imagining how any of these guys work their way onto the big league club, and one or two of them might end up as trade fodder come July. Meanwhile, despite being the (or a) darling of Spring Training, Jose Rojas now seems at the bottom of the depth chart.

Summary

The strength of the middle infield seems to be quantity of mediocre to solid players, while the weakness is that there is no standout player. At least unless Wade proves he's established a higher level of play, Velazquez starts hitting, Fletcher returns as his 2018-20 self, or one of the guys in the minors is called up and plays well. Perhaps the reason Maddon seems to be leaning towards Wade and Velazquez is that he wants to see what they can do - Mayfield and Duffy are more known quantities.

Anyhow, the bottom line is that the Angels have a lot of middle infield options, none obviously good or ahead of the pack, but all with at least some value. What makes it interesting is that it is really hard to say how it will turn out - what formula Maddon settles on, and what the configuration of the middle infield will look like come the stretch run. This is very different than, say, the outfield - where the only real question marks are whether or not Trout is made of glass, and who will earn the largest share of starts among Ward, Adell, and Marsh. So many possibilities.

Very good analysis, but most likely someone of those 4 guys will be hurt at varying points of the season, so it will just be good to have adequate replacements.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yes. They always fly immediately after the last game of a series. 

Did you travel with the team for the Texas trip?

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think it would be different if Velazquez had any pop or was a great bunter (ahem). You could then justify leaving him in the lineup. But he's just a wasted AB. He doesn't do anything on offense. 

I agree, but who can play ss with the same level of defense and is not a wasted AB?  Fletcher is neither a comparable defender or better AB than Velazquez.  I could get Fletcher out if I were pitching. 

[Angels 1961]

35 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I agree, but who can play ss with the same level of defense and is not a wasted AB?  Fletcher is neither a comparable defender or better AB than Velazquez.  I could get Fletcher out if I were pitching. 

I remember in April 1961 your opening day complete victory against Baltimore. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

Did you travel with the team for the Texas trip?

I never travel “with the team.” But I did go to all the games. 

[Dtwncbad]

23 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I never travel “with the team.” But I did go to all the games. 

You spend a lot of time with many important people with the Angels.

Do you get any sense at all about how they feel today about the roster as it relates to the middle infield?

Is there any indication of “this isn’t going to work and we are going to have to do something else”?

 

[Tank]

27 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I never travel “with the team.” But I did go to all the games. 

so how does it work for you? CAN you fly with them or are you on your own?

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You spend a lot of time with many important people with the Angels.

Do you get any sense at all about how they feel today about the roster as it relates to the middle infield?

Is there any indication of “this isn’t going to work and we are going to have to do something else”?

 

After 13 games? No

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 minutes ago, Tank said:

so how does it work for you? CAN you fly with them or are you on your own?

Beat writers used to fly on the charter up until the 1980s, I think. And actually teams didn’t even fly on charters all the time then. So I think it was a pretty small window when that really happened. 
 

Once I asked because the schedule was almost impossible to do commercially (a series starting with a day game on Memorial Day or Labor Day) but I was told no. 

[Dtwncbad]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

After 13 games? No

I understand your point exactly.  I guess I am struggling with it because I am in the “hope is not a plan” club regarding SS and I am wondering how long it is going to take for the Angels to ACTUALLY address the SS position for 2022.  When it’s too late?

Anyway, thank you for answering my question.

[Jeff Fletcher]

40 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand your point exactly.  I guess I am struggling with it because I am in the “hope is not a plan” club regarding SS and I am wondering how long it is going to take for the Angels to ACTUALLY address the SS position for 2022.  When it’s too late?

Anyway, thank you for answering my question.

I suspect the kind of player that you would classify as a plan is now not going to be available until the trading deadline. 
 

Also, I would say their “plan” was to have enough options that they didn’t need to place too much “hope” in any one of them. 

[Erstad Grit]

17 hours ago, Trendon said:

If all of the position players on the MLB roster remain healthy when Fletcher gets back, I think the Angels will have to send Velazquez back down to AAA.

Fletcher is basically Velazquez-lite: a phenomenal defender who has had struggles hitting. Fletcher has the leg up over Velazquez, though, because Fletcher has hit well in the past ('19-'20) and has a guaranteed contract, while Velazquez has options and a non-guaranteed contract.

I'm not sold on Velazquez being our SS as he's pretty lost at the plate.  However let's not pretend Fletcher is even in the same statosphere as him defensively. 

[Angelsjunky]

39 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I suspect the kind of player that you would classify as a plan is now not going to be available until the trading deadline. 
 

Also, I would say their “plan” was to have enough options that they didn’t need to place too much “hope” in any one of them. 

This, and I would apply it to the offseason. It was either a premium (and expensive) shortstop, or a shotgun approach. They wanted to spend their money on pitching, so we got the latter. I know @Dochalo wanted a middle ground, but there were limited options. Actually, the shortstop market was strange that way: Half a dozen or so premium options, only a few middle-ground options, and the usual array of filler.

Anyhow, so far the results fro the middle infielders are pretty good, @Dtwncbad. Mayfield, Wade, and Duffy have all hit really well and Velazquez's defense has been a pleasant surprise. Only Fletcher has pretty much shown nothing, but he also only played in 5 games.

But I don't mean to downplay your concern, as there are two problems: One, no single player has everything in one package; if we could combine Duffy's bat and Velazquez's glove, we'd have a borderline star. Secondly, we're still talking small sample sizes, and the offensive numbers will equalize. But this also works both ways: maybe Velazquez improves and/or Fletcher plays better.

So I think the plan is pretty clear: keep doing what they're doing, especially giving Velazquez every opportunity to improve his offense. If things start turning sour, they have a few guys in the minors to try out--Rengifo, Davis, Stefanic. If the middle infield is in shambles, then they might look for a trade...but that's not until July.