OC Register: David Ortiz elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens left out

[Jeff Fletcher]

12 minutes ago, Tank said:

whoa, i did not have "groundbreaking baseball statistician condones cheating" on my 2022 bingo card.

https://twitter.com/billjamesonline/status/1486084183227305984?s=20

This is no surprise. The vast majority of the analytics types think the PED guys should be in the HOF.

[Don]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

So I don't want to dive into the cesspool of Twitter, but I have to vent about a couple other things, so you guys are gonna get it...

It's ridiculous to blame the BBWAA for its position on the PED guys. You can have any body you want vote (fans, former players, HOFers, executives, plumbers, etc.) and at least 25 percent of them are going to think cheaters shouldn't be in the HOF. I would love to have the HOF turn it over to some other group, and then when they come back with the same results, I'm just going to sit back and laugh.

Further, it's the HOF itself that very clearly has indicated that it does not want steroid guys elected. They reduced the years on the ballot from 15 to 10, which was pretty much a direct shot at the steroid guys once they realized their numbers were rising. They sent out a letter, signed by HOFer Joe Morgan, telling voters they didn't want PED guys in the HOF. They ignored the BBWAA's request to make 100 percent of the ballots public.

That's all for now.

I think the issue lies in the perception of the BBWAA being an overwhelmingly old and out-of-touch group that is actively choosing to take a moral stand against some players of a certain era while ignoring the moral shortcomings of players in other eras (or even players of the steroid era providing they liked the dudes) out of some sort of misplaced nostalgia. Again, it's just a perception that is likely only accurate on the fringe of the voting body... but it's hard to ignore that it exists for a reason. Those "activist voters" are largely grandstanding when they have nothing of substance to stand on. 

[Taylor]

14 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Joe Morgan was an asshole.  If we want to get into voting to reward or punish players personally rather than strive for historical accuracy, then Joe a Morgan signing that letter would instantly trigger me to vote for the every player that ever tested positive. . . Just to “punish” the asshole Joe Morgan.

I agree, but Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling are also assholes. 

[Don]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

I agree, but Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling are also assholes. 

David Ortiz... not an asshole.

[Taylor]

Just now, Don said:

David Ortiz... not an asshole.

He's basically half an asshole.

We need a song a la Adam Sandler's "The Channakuh Song."

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Don said:

David Ortiz... not an asshole.

Nah. He was an asshole. Threw a tantrum every time he got called out on strikes and if you dared throw a pitch anywhere near him he would get pissed.

At the very least, a poor sport.

[Don]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Nah. He was an asshole. Threw a tantrum every time he got called out on strikes and if you dared throw a pitch anywhere near him he would get pissed.

At the very least, a poor sport.

I was just speaking to his perception among the HOF voters.

[Taylor]

17 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Nah. He was an asshole. Threw a tantrum every time he got called out on strikes and if you dared throw a pitch anywhere near him he would get pissed.

At the very least, a poor sport.

Didn't he shoot a guy?

 

 

With a gun, you pervs.

 

Fake News

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Didn't he shoot a guy?

 

 

With a gun, you pervs.

he was shot BY someone. a drug dealer took issue with big papi screwing his wife.

[Taylor]

Just now, Tank said:

he was shot BY someone. a drug dealer took issue with big papi screwing his wife.

That's right.

[failos]

5 hours ago, True Grich said:

I am obviously a huge Bobby Grich fan... but I'm not broken up over the fact that he's not in the HOF.  He certainly has the analytics to back up an argument to put him in; especially when you compare him to some of the others already in the HOF.  And that's the thing... when you compare him to others - some of those "others" probably shouldn't be in the HOF either. 

When I think of HOFers, I think of guys like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente... not guys like Harold Baines, Jim Rice, Jack Morris... and not necessarily Bobby Grich.

Yeah I also immediately think of those legends when I think of the HoF. But like you said, when you compare Grich to some of the guys getting inducted now, then it makes you wonder if the Hall of Fame awards has devolved into the ESPY Awards. I guess I just don’t care about this shit anymore.

[failos]

4 hours ago, Taylor said:

He's basically half an asshole.

We need a song a la Adam Sandler's "The Channakuh Song."

Half of an asshole is still an asshole, in practical terms.

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, Don said:

I think the issue lies in the perception of the BBWAA being an overwhelmingly old and out-of-touch group that is actively choosing to take a moral stand against some players of a certain era while ignoring the moral shortcomings of players in other eras (or even players of the steroid era providing they liked the dudes) out of some sort of misplaced nostalgia. Again, it's just a perception that is likely only accurate on the fringe of the voting body... but it's hard to ignore that it exists for a reason. Those "activist voters" are largely grandstanding when they have nothing of substance to stand on. 

It's getting harder and harder to take it seriously when the greatest player of the last nearly 100 years isn't in, and arguably the greatest pitcher of all time isn't in, yet Herold fucking Baines is in. When judging a players moral character becomes the biggest part of the process, the Hall becomes meaningless as a baseball institution. They ought to change the name to "Hall Of Cool Dudes Who Were Pretty Good At Baseball Too"

[Don]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It's getting harder and harder to take it seriously when the greatest player of the last nearly 100 years isn't in, and arguably the greatest pitcher of all time isn't in, yet Herold fucking Baines is in. When judging a players moral character becomes the biggest part of the process, the Hall becomes meaningless as a baseball institution. They ought to change the name to "Hall Of Cool Dudes Who Were Pretty Good At Baseball Too"

I agree with you here, though even the moral arguments that these writers make don't stand up to any real scrutiny.

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, Taylor said:

Didn't he shoot a guy?

 

 

With a gun, you pervs.

 

Fake News

How can you expect us to take your opinions on the baseball Hall of Fame seriously when you don't have a clue about his basic moral character stats?

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Don said:

I agree with you here, though even the moral arguments that these writers make don't stand up to any real scrutiny.

Well they're about as consistent as the arguments they make using baseball stats alone. 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

How can you expect us to take your opinions on the baseball Hall of Fame seriously when you don't have a clue about his basic moral character stats?

I plead the fifth.

[Taylor]

I'm also grateful that by all accounts, Mike Trout is a man of upstanding character in addition to being a generational talent.

Shohei, too.

[AngelsLakersFan]

32 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I'm also grateful that by all accounts, Mike Trout is a man of upstanding character in addition to being a generational talent.

Shohei, too.

So far

[Stradling]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:29 PM, failos said:

Half of an asshole is still an asshole, in practical terms.

Especially if you round up. 

[Torridd]

On 1/26/2022 at 10:52 AM, Taylor said:

I blame the steroid users for creating this mess in the first place. I agree that it's strange that Ortiz would get in but not Bonds or Clemens, but the reason there's even a question is because a bunch of players decided to cheat.

People cheat all the time in sports. I think it's up to the league to have stricter rules. They turned a blind eye when homers were flying over the fences because people were watching baseball, then they decide they want to punish those who took advantage. Steroids was an era just like there was a Dead Ball era. The league controls all these things. I say let them all in who were allowed to play under those rules and whose talent shone. It's not like most of the people who took steroids have HOF numbers.

[eligrba]

13 hours ago, Torridd said:

It's not like most of the people who took steroids have HOF numbers.

I'm not clear what HOF numbers are any more.

[Don]

4 hours ago, eligrba said:

I'm not clear what HOF numbers are any more.

Not Neifi Perez's numbers is the point.

[Don]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_suspended_for_performance-enhancing_drugs

The vast majority of these guys aren't anywhere close to being HOF-caliber players.

[W.E. Baxter Author]

On 1/25/2022 at 5:31 PM, True Grich said:

AJ Pierzynski got two votes.... LOL. WTF?

That is less than 6% of the votes which means he is off the ballot forever. Bonds and Clemens can still get in through the Veteran's Committee.