Is Re-Signing Raisel Iglesias the Smart Move?

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

I doubt we had a “sucky” bullpen 10 of the last 13 years. You stated it as fact so you do the research. 

Can't  prove me wrong...huh

As I stated, I am not an expert in navigating fangraphs.

We had 2014 we were good and believe Huston Streets first season.

Ypu show me another year

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by stormngt

[tdawg87]

10 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Can't  prove me wrong...huh

As I stated, I am not an expert in navigating fangraphs.

We had 2014 we were good and believe Huston Streets first season.

Ypu show me another year

 

Burden of proof, my friend.

[Taylor]

59 minutes ago, stormngt said:

We had 2014 we were good and believe Huston Streets first season.

Ypu show me another year

@EnglishCop

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Can't  prove me wrong...huh

As I stated, I am not an expert in navigating fangraphs.

We had 2014 we were good and believe Huston Streets first season.

Ypu show me another year

 

Ok I got bored after looking at 2003, 2004 and 2005, all were better than league average bullpens.  

[Angel Oracle]

Here’s another way to look at it.

Arte Moreno owes nothing on the purchase of the team, and never has.

He’s worth some $2 billion beyond the worth of the Halos.

If he can’t spring the extra $3 million beyond Iglesias’ value (QO) for ONE year for an elite closer, than maybe it’s time for him to get out of the baseball business?

Do the right thing, and at least offer the QO.   Gives you a year to see how the bullpen and the prospects progress.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

Here’s another way to look at it.

Arte Moreno owes nothing on the purchase of the team, and never has.

He’s worth some $2 billion beyond the worth of the Halos.

If he can’t spring the extra $3 million beyond Iglesias’ value (QO) for ONE year for an elite closer, than maybe I’d time for him to get out of the baseball business?

Or it is a bad investment.  Every team has a budget, and while he doesn't have debt on the team, it is only because he made a great investment.  At the end of the day you want a good return on investment.  He hasn't had that with Albert, or Josh or Upton.  If Iglesias costs $18 million then let him walk and find a better use for your resources.  Pitching is usually a bad investment and once that money is spent it prevents you from signing more players to make up for that player because you have a budget.  

Also you can talk about how much money he is worth but it doesn't add anything to the discussion.  Owners of companies across the globe are much richer than Arte and are unwilling to spend money as much as him.  You only have to look at the A's in MLB, that ownership has more money than Arte and they trade players before having to pay for them all the time.  

[Angel Oracle]

Those are some solid points.   If this franchise hadn’t struggled so much though in the bullpen these past 6 seasons, I might be on board with what you said, Strad.

Until they can do a better job at building a bullpen, you have to at least bite the bullet for one season while getting those ducks in a row.

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Or it is a bad investment.  Every team has a budget, and while he doesn't have debt on the team, it is only because he made a great investment.  At the end of the day you want a good return on investment.  He hasn't had that with Albert, or Josh or Upton.  If Iglesias costs $18 million then let him walk and find a better use for your resources.  Pitching is usually a bad investment and once that money is spent it prevents you from signing more players to make up for that player because you have a budget.  

Also you can talk about how much money he is worth but it doesn't add anything to the discussion.  Owners of companies across the globe are much richer than Arte and are unwilling to spend money as much as him.  You only have to look at the A's in MLB, that ownership has more money than Arte and they trade players before having to pay for them all the time.  

That's because they're cheap as fuck. Look at the Marlins owner.

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Those are some solid points.   If this franchise hadn’t struggled so much though in the bullpen these past 6 seasons, I might be on board with what you said, Strad.

Until they can do a better job at building a bullpen, you have to at least bite the bullet for one season while getting those ducks in a row.

Ok so you give him 3 years and $48-51 million and he becomes an average bullpen arm.  Now what?  

[Angel Oracle]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok so you give him 3 years and $48-51 million and he becomes an average bullpen arm.  Now what?  

I’m happy making the QO.  That was my main point.    One year while assessing how the pen and pen prospects progress.

Which gets me to the other point. Why not trade him, if they weren’t going to bring him back?

Edited October 24, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Ok so you give him 3 years and $48-51 million and he becomes an average bullpen arm.  Now what?  

You could say this about every single free agent ever.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

You could say this about every single free agent ever.

yes.  And one "position" is the most volatile in baseball and that is bullpen arm.  

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

yes.  And one "position" is the most volatile in baseball and that is bullpen arm.  

True, but it's also a position we desperately need filled and we have no one to fill it.

[Stradling]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

True, but it's also a position we desperately need filled and we have no one to fill it.

correct.  But spending $18 million when there are other needs may not be the best use of our resources.  We also have to assume some regression from him, not because of age but because he was so good last year.  The cost difference between him accepting the QO and a guy like Jansen could be $6-8 million.  Would you rather have Jansen and McHugh or just Iglesias?  Or Iglesias for $18 million or Kimbrel for $16 million if opts out?  I do not believe we will offer him the QO.  

[tdawg87]

Btw, the elite closers aren't that volatile.

Jansen, Chapman, and Kimbrel (other than 2 injured seasons) have been consistent as fuck.

You know who else has? Iglesias.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

correct.  But spending $18 million when there are other needs may not be the best use of our resources.  We also have to assume some regression from him, not because of age but because he was so good last year.  The cost difference between him accepting the QO and a guy like Jansen could be $6-8 million.  Would you rather have Jansen and McHugh or just Iglesias?  Or Iglesias for $18 million or Kimbrel for $16 million if opts out?  I do not believe we will offer him the QO.  

Do you really think Jansen is only getting 10-12 million a year?

Edited October 24, 2021 by tdawg87

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Btw, the elite closers aren't that volatile.

Jansen, Chapman, and Kimbrel (other than 2 injured seasons) have been consistent as fuck.

You know who else has? Iglesias.

He had an elite year, but I don't know if he is an elite closer.  I could be totally wrong, because I didn't follow him on the Reds.  How often are elite closers traded for Noe Ramirez, while also eating money from the elite closer's contract from a team that was planning on contending?  

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Do you really think Jansen is only getting 10-12 million a year?

That is what he is projected to get according to sportrac.  I mean I guess he could get $14-15 million.  

[Stradling]

When looking at sportac's projections there are a few I disagree with, most notably is Noah Syndagaard.  He is projected to get $29 million a year.  Probably not.  

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That is what he is projected to get according to sportrac.  I mean I guess he could get $14-15 million.  

I don't know where that figure is coming from. He's coming off an amazing season where he had a 185 ERA+.

[ettin]

24 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

True, but it's also a position hole we desperately need filled and we have no one to fill it.

Fixed. A little disappointed, in you, Toby.

[jsnpritchett]

38 minutes ago, Stradling said:

  I do not believe we will offer him the QO.  

It will be insane if they don't.  Even if he accepts the QO, they can still try to work out a longer-term contract with him.  And if they don't offer him the QO and he goes elsewhere, then it will make even less sense that they didn't trade him before the deadline.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

It will be insane if they don't.  Even if he accepts the QO, they can still try to work out a longer-term contract with him.  And if they don't offer him the QO and he goes elsewhere, then it will make even less sense that they didn't trade him before the deadline.

I don’t disagree that it wouldn’t make sense based on not trading him.  

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Stradling said:

I don’t disagree that it wouldn’t make sense based on not trading him.  

I think you're agreeing with me, but the triple (or quadruple?) negative makes me slightly unclear...

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think you're agreeing with me, but the triple (or quadruple?) negative makes me slightly unclear...

Wow, yea not a great sentence.