Pujols/Hamilton: Can these guys really be THAT bad?

[Angel Oracle]

It just seems that we've guessed WRONG on a lot of the acquisitions over the past 2+ seasons, going back to Wells.

And while Haren had 1.5 good seasons, that will turn out to be a bad trade too in the long run.

 

When will this franchise get back to doing a better job of scouting potential acquisitions?

[Brent Maguire]

Florida, same difference.

Well done

[Tyler]

stealer of thy jokes

[GalericX]

When will this franchise get back to doing a better job of scouting potential acquisitions?

As soon as they change the mind set of winning now and look long term.  We know Dipoto is capable of it.  I believe its an Arte thing to be honest, but it is his team, he makes the calls.  As soon as Regina took over things went south very quick.

[tomsred]

A couple of months ago, posters were giving the version of "it is still early".

 

I'd like to know what those posters think in June.

 

Great thread topic, IMO.

It's still early.

[tomsred]

There is a difference between Florida and Mexico; in Florida they sometimes pay their Federal taxes, in Mexico they don't.

[mp170.6]

For the sake of discussion -- and nothing more at this point -- is it possible Pujols and Hamilton are caught up in the Biogenesis scandal?

 

More and more I'm struggling to believe Pujols' foot problems are legit.  There's no point in allowing him to play anymore this year.  And as cautious as teams are these days, I think all 29 other teams would have DL'ed Pujols weeks ago under these circumstances.

[Ohtaniland]

Lol. I think I know who you are. Ryu and Darvish aren't from China and Puig and Cespedes aren't from the Dominican.

 

They're from Home Depot?

[YouthofToday]

I think the more interesting point is now that the league tests for amphetamines older players have greater difficulty producing and playing as much.

As such it makes a lot more sense to gamble on younger players such as Darvish and any former Cuban national more than 22 than players in their 30s (international bonus restrictions don't apply once a player has turned 22).

Although not every Cuban will end up being a stud like Chapman, Cespedes and Puig I would rather bet $50 million on a talented Cuban than $250 million on any "32" year old player.

Soler looks really good for the Cubs so far.

Supply and demand (limits in $$ teams can ofer in US and international to proapects) indicate future Cuban ball players may well start receiving nearly $100 guaranteed depending on identified talent.

[Brent Maguire]

Well said YOT.

The international market needs to be utiized wayyyyy more.

[wopphil]

I can't really think of a Cuban prospect who has busted. Those guys ALL seem to make a seamless transition over here.

[Angel Oracle]

The crazy stat is that despite having an OPS under .750, Pujols is still on pace for close to 100 rbis.

Hackilton on the other hand is on pace for about 50 rbis.

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

The crazy stat is that despite having an OPS under .750, Pujols is still on pace for close to 100 rbis.

Hackilton on the other hand is on pace for about 50 rbis.

His numbers are terrible when the bases are empty, but unlike Hamilton, he's put up solid numbers with runners on base.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6619/situational;_ylt=Ah13DRQNc5h4whRCleoCyYCFCLcF

[JB Abell]

Yeah Pujols has been pretty solid. Nothing like expected and I'm still disappointed, but at least he is producing.

[YouthofToday]

The only time I look at, or spend time thinking about, RBIs is for fantasy baseball.

They are not a factor in player evaluation.

[JB Abell]

The only time I look at, or spend time thinking about, RBIs is for fantasy baseball.

They are not a factor in player evaluation.

Why not? Especially for someone in the 3 hole? Of course there are stats to consider, but his RBIs and the fact he is hitting .314 with RISP are important. Not saying that we can just throw everything else out, call it a day and tell Pujols he's earning his keep, but despite the fact that his avg and OPB/OPS are relatively weak, he is still producing.

Hamilton on the other hand has come up 48 times this year with RISP compared to pujols 51, almost the same. But he is hitting .125 and only has 21 RBIs. They have almost the same amount of home runs so that is negligible.

[Lifetime]

while RBI is not a significant barometer on its own, it still has significant importance as part of the evaluation. It's not irrelevant as some try to paint it. It just shouldn't be looked at in a vacuum - as is true with all stats and metrics.

[YouthofToday]

Why not? Especially for someone in the 3 hole? Of course there are stats to consider, but his RBIs and the fact he is hitting .314 with RISP are important. Not saying that we can just throw everything else out, call it a day and tell Pujols he's earning his keep, but despite the fact that his avg and OPB/OPS are relatively weak, he is still producing.

Hamilton on the other hand has come up 48 times this year with RISP compared to pujols 51, almost the same. But he is hitting .125 and only has 21 RBIs. They have almost the same amount of home runs so that is negligible.

But RISP is not a predictable stat independent of a player's talent.

[Lifetime]

who's trying to use it by itself to predict anything?

[mp170.6]

I think the more interesting point is now that the league tests for amphetamines older players have greater difficulty producing and playing as much.

As such it makes a lot more sense to gamble on younger players such as Darvish and any former Cuban national more than 22 than players in their 30s (international bonus restrictions don't apply once a player has turned 22).

 

I tend to think the benefits of amphetamine use are exaggerated...

 

1) Unlike steroids or HGH, muscle power won't increase

2) Tolerance builds pretty quickly and the stimulant properties fade after 2-3 years of regular use

3) Popping more pills to overcome the tolerance has adverse effects as well (i.e. muscle spasms and cardio problems)

4) Appetite is seriously reduced.  People taking amphetamines will not be hungry enough to eat enough to maintain or build muscle mass.  It's the opposite effect of taking steroids or HGH.

 

Having said this, I do see an unfair advantage if a player parties all night and is sleep deprived.  Occasional amphetamine use may compensate for their lifestyle choices. 

[YouthofToday]

I tend to think the benefits of amphetamine use are exaggerated...

1) Unlike steroids or HGH, muscle power won't increase

2) Tolerance builds pretty quickly and the stimulant properties fade after 2-3 years of regular use

3) Popping more pills to overcome the tolerance has adverse effects as well (i.e. muscle spasms and cardio problems)

4) Appetite is seriously reduced. People taking amphetamines will not be hungry enough to eat enough to maintain or build muscle mass. It's the opposite effect of taking steroids or HGH.

Having said this, I do see an unfair advantage if a player parties all night and is sleep deprived. Occasional amphetamine use may compensate for their lifestyle choices.

Professional athletes disagree. I also dispute the 2-3 years figure.

[mp170.6]

Professional athletes disagree. I also dispute the 2-3 years figure.

 

Which ones?  Those who have or haven't taken amphetamines?  Their viewpoints are likely to be much different.

 

Do you have experience to the contrary to dispute the 2-3 years figure? 

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

I didn't stop anyone from speaking nor am I taking over the thread.

Yes you are.  Just because you're passive agressive about it and using subtext that passive agressive, strawman happy trolls us doesn't mean you're not polluting the thread.

[Lifetime]

oh OK. Well thanks for your insightful contribution dbag.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Go to china and get some pitchers like Ryu and Darvish. Then go to the Dominican and get some guys like Puig/Cespesdes

 

There was a letter on here earlier about some good ballplayers tucked away in Nigeria.