POLL: Who is MOST responsible for 6+ years of mediocrity?

[Taylor]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have gone over this narrative enough times about what kind of disadvantage a new owner would be in but it falls on deaf ears because ARTE BAD.  An Angel team not owned by Arte would take a decade to compete, unless you get an UBER rich dude who wants to buy the Angels.  Are NBA owners allowed to own MLB teams?  I know at one point there was some dude that owned a team in one league couldn’t own a team in other league.  I don’t remember which two sports it was.

The Angels competed less than 2 years after Arte bought the team. 

[mmc]

How can the answer be anything other than Arte, we have had several GMs and managers since the start of the Trout era and the same problems constantly exist.  It is clear that the issues ultimately come down to the organizational philosophy of how a MLB team should be ran and who is the one that dictates that?  Arte.

[Taylor]

The tidbit that the Angels laid off almost their entire scouting team is also an Arte thing. Dude doesn't care as long as he makes money.

[Inside Pitch]

 

2 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Also.. up yours Dipoto for not going after Vladimir Guerrero Jr. when he was in our backyard. 

I really doubt Arte told Jerry, nah he's going to cost too much to sign in the international pool. 

LOL, imagine if he had said that then he paid twice as much for Baldoquin than Vlad Jr ended up costing.    Then again, he "personally" scouted him.  
 

[m0nkey]

The NBA is still relevant?

[Angels 1961]

You forgot the 5th option all of the above

[Inside Pitch]

As far as my blame rankings go.

Dipoto, Arte, dysfunction, awful drafts 2010-2014, and the Tommy John gods.

But it really doesn't end there.  The failure to get back into the international game was a huge huge issue too.   Eppler's misses at signing FA pitchers and even worse misses with the guys he did sign while having no long term impact made NO positive immediate impact either -- ultimately that cost him his job.

Mike Trout is the only reason the Angels haven't been the post Bonds Pirates.

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

You forgot the 5th option all of the above

Imagine if the people making the decisions had access to better danish.  That may have improved their moods and resulted in better outcomes.  But Arte cheaped out and got a box of Costco stuff and here we are.

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, Taylor said:

The Angels competed less than 2 years after Arte bought the team. 

Yes, because he had a good team, a good farm and he had no debt.  The next owner, assuming Arte sold the team today, would not be in nearly as good of spot as Arte was when he bought the team and he would most likely have a ton of debt.

[Taylor]

Just now, Stradling said:

Yes, because he had a good team, a good farm and he had no debt.  The next owner, assuming Arte sold the team today, would not be in nearly as good of spot as Arte was when he bought the team and he would most likely have a ton of debt.

Maybe mrwicked will buy the team.

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Maybe mrwicked will buy the team.

or @kevinb word is he can afford parking at the stadium.

[T.G.]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The next owner, assuming Arte sold the team today, would not be in nearly as good of spot as Arte was when he bought the team and he would most likely have a ton of debt.

How in the world do you know that?

[tdawg87]

Dipoto is such an amazing failure.

[Angels 1961]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Imagine if the people making the decisions had access to better danish.  That may have improved their moods and resulted in better outcomes.  But Arte cheaped out and got a box of Costco stuff and here we are.

Long live DANISH, Artie did buy danish same rack as his starting pitchers. The day old rack they are cheaper. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, True Grich said:

How in the world do you know that?

The team will cost $2 billion and not $170 million. Refer to my previous post about UBER rich. 

[Angels 1961]

8 minutes ago, True Grich said:

How in the world do you know that?

Steve Ballmer told him

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The team will cost $2 billion and not $170 million. Refer to my previous post about UBER rich. 

So... maybe someone who is "uber rich" could buy the team.  Or it could be an ownership group with extra deep pockets.

The Mets' new owner spent plenty to buy and plenty on players.

Edited June 17, 2021 by True Grich

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

So... maybe someone who is "uber rich" could buy the team.  Or it could be an ownership group with extra deep pockets.

The Mets' new owner spent plenty to buy and plenty on players.

Yes of course that could happen, which is why I use terms like “most likely”. 

[Angel Oracle]

32 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes, because he had a good team, a good farm and he had no debt.  The next owner, assuming Arte sold the team today, would not be in nearly as good of spot as Arte was when he bought the team and he would most likely have a ton of debt.

This is exactly why I mention Ballmer, who’s worth 12 times what Arte is worth.  

But whether it’s Ballmer or someone else, they have to be worth much more than Arte Moreno is, and be able to buy the franchise with cash.

[Inside Pitch]

20 minutes ago, True Grich said:

So... maybe someone who is "uber rich" could buy the team.  Or it could be an ownership group with extra deep pockets.

The Mets' new owner spent plenty to buy and plenty on players.

Regardless of money, anyone who buys the team now will have a tougher go of it simply because the game has changed a ton.

Teams used to be able to draft and follow guys.  Draft pools weren't limited to pick bonuses.  The Angels under Stoneman/Arte signed guys like Trumbo and Adenhart to first round money in the middle rounds.   International money wasn't locked and maybe more importantly the farm isn't remotely close to being as deep as it was when Arte took over.  Teams simply cant spend the money to build foundations like they used to be able to -- even if they wanted to. Also, I think it goes without saying the chances of the team drafting a generational type talent are probably pretty remote too.

The Angels of today are basically the result of the bad decisions made between 2010 and 2014 or whenever it was they signed Hamilton.

Arte walked into a pretty ideal situation... through 2010 it seemed he was on the right path, since then...  Oof.

[T.G.]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Regardless of money, anyone who buys the team now will have a tougher go of it simply because the game has changed a ton.

I don't buy that it will be a tougher go for someone else because that seems to imply it will be easier for Arte to right the ship.  Harder time compared to when Arte bought the team?  Sure.  Harder time moving the team forward now than Arte can right now? I don't know.

[T.G.]

22 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes of course that could happen, which is why I use terms like “most likely”. 

I don't think anyone can really predict what is "most likely."

[T.G.]

In any case, I doubt Arte sells the team anyway.  He just locked up that sweet deal with the city...

[Angels 1961]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yes of course that could happen, which is why I use terms like “most likely”. 

How's the Lindor signing looking? When will people learn throwing money at the problem will not solve the problem. Ask Tampa or Oakland

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm using the word "drafted" but yes, he was signed.

You know how Dipoto scouted Baldoquin? That's the connection Toronto has with Jr.

Also, Toronto is not Montreal, but I believe you are heavily mistaken if you don't understand why there's a connection there. It's a different country. Vlad played in that country for many years. That's where he was signed, in a manner not too dissimilar to how these signings happen now.

Regardless, we agree that the Angels should have been all-in on Vlad Jr. They couldn't be because they wasted their allotment on Baldoquin, giving them the 2 year penalty during which Jr. signed with Toronto.

So basically, Fuck Dipoto.

Your second paragraph makes no sense.  You are suggesting that Toronto has an advantage over the Angels for Vlad Jr because Vlad Sr played in the same country as Montreal despite Clad played for the Angels.

It's very likely Dipshit did not make an effort on Vlad Jr because they couldn't due to the Baldoquin.  

Outside a best friend or family friend working for Toronto that is behind the scenes I see no possible scenario I do not see the advantage Toronto had over Anaheim.  Thus I have to conclude its was the Baldoquin signing.