ZiPS Time Warp: Pujols (Fangraphs)

[Angelsjunky]

While I'm leery to post this as it will be yet another opportunity for (some) people to bitch about Pujols, I thought the alternate timeline stats for Pujols was interesting, and gives us a sense of what he "should" have produced as an Angel, with normal decline:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zips-time-warp-albert-pujols/

One thing to note: he "should" have 775 HR by career's end, which would have made him the all-time leader.

[eligrba]

Maybe Pujols needs real fans, like the ones in St. Louis, to perform well.

Maybe the problem is us and we have been unfairly assigning blame to Albert?

[kevinb]

WoW

[AngelsLakersFan]

I don't think Pujols was ever driven to maintain his greatness. After all the championships, the MVPs, the money and the lesbian wife, what else was there?

[Angel Oracle]

Big takeaway, not mentioned in the article:  Imagine carrying 240/250 lbs and having 7700+ reg season and post-season PAs for the Cardinals with that exaggerated crouched stance damaging his knees and feet.

I still think Arte orchestrated that signing.   Who signs any 32 year-old superstar to a 10 year deal, especially one with that much wear and tear on his knees and feet?

Rendon's deal makes so much more sense (age 30, 7th season age 36), plus not carrying so much weight and with a normal batting stance.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't think Pujols was ever driven to maintain his greatness. After all the championships, the MVPs, the money and the lesbian wife, what else was there?

[Docwaukee]

this thread went everywhere it was going to in 7 posts.  

[Angelsjunky]

7 hours ago, eligrba said:

Maybe Pujols needs real fans, like the ones in St. Louis, to perform well.

Maybe the problem is us and we have been unfairly assigning blame to Albert?

Maybe.

[Tank]

6 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't think Pujols was ever driven to maintain his greatness. After all the championships, the MVPs, the money and the lesbian wife, what else was there?

this is news. care to explain?

[thebloob]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Big takeaway, not mentioned in the article:  Imagine carrying 240/250 lbs and having 7700+ reg season and post-season PAs for the Cardinals with that exaggerated crouched stance damaging his knees and feet.

I still think Arte orchestrated that signing.   Who signs any 32 year-old superstar to a 10 year deal, especially one with that much wear and tear on his knees and feet?

Rendon's deal makes so much more sense (age 30, 7th season age 36), plus not carrying so much weight and with a normal batting stance.

And who doubles down on that by signing a 28 year old to a 12 year deal.  Remember Pujols was mike trout 10 years ago.  The unquestioned best offensive player in the game. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by thebloob

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, thebloob said:

And who doubles down on that by signing a 29 year old to a 12 year deal.  Remember Pujols was mike trout 10 years ago.  The unquestioned best offensive player in the game. 

Incorrect.

[thebloob]

Corrected trouts age but can’t tell what you are arguing about.  Are you telling that NO ONE else on these boards has concerns that in 5-6 years they will be talking about trout like they talk about Pujols now?  If you are arguing that he was the best offensive player, please give stats of a guy with a comparable decade to Pujols. 

[Lou]

Just now, thebloob said:

Corrected trouts age but can’t tell what you are arguing about.  Are you telling that NO ONE else on these boards has concerns that in 5-6 years they will be talking about trout like they talk about Pujols now?  If you are arguing that he was the best offensive player, please give stats of a guy with a comparable decade to Pujols. 

You didn't say decade. You said: "Remember Pujols was mike trout 10 years ago.  The unquestioned best offensive player in the game."

Pujols was not the unquestionable best offensive player in the game in 2010.

[thebloob]

Just now, Lou said:

You didn't say decade. You said: "Remember Pujols was mike trout 10 years ago.  The unquestioned best offensive player in the game."

Pujols was not the unquestionable best offensive player in the game in 2010.

Incorrect

[Lou]

Oh, and no, in 5 years, people won't be talking about Trout like they do Pujols right now. Not even close. 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, thebloob said:

Incorrect

If it was unquestionable, I would think he would have led the majors in at least one offensive categories. 

For starters, Hamilton and Cabrera were better. 

[thebloob]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

Oh, and no, in 5 years, people won't be talking about Trout like they do Pujols right now. Not even close. 

And no one thought they would be talking about Pujols like this now.  I’m too lazy to search and see if you ever had anything positive to say about him but I think most were in agreement that the first 5 years would be really good.  We are no longer in the steroid/ped era and players decline earlier.  Trout is only 29 but he started logging mlb mileage on his body at 19.  I don’t know if he’ll decline but the odds are he will at around 35.  Then there is 5 more years or so on the contract to see how low will he go.  If he declines like Pujols did I guarantee that even though he will be an all time great angel there will be calls for him to move aside, just like Pujols.  

[thebloob]

6 minutes ago, Lou said:

If it was unquestionable, I would think he would have led the majors in at least one offensive categories. 

For starters, Hamilton and Cabrera were better. 

I think mike trout is still the best offensive player in the league and he has a tie for one offensive category right now. 

[Lou]

38 games. 

[thebloob]

21 minutes ago, Lou said:

You didn't say decade. You said: "Remember Pujols was mike trout 10 years ago.  The unquestioned best offensive player in the game."

Pujols was not the unquestionable best offensive player in the game in 2010.

Oh and since you want to be nit picky about details, in 2010 he led the league in runs, rbi, hr, and ops+.  He finished second in the mvp race and would have won these days since he had a higher war with very similar stats to Joey Votto.  I think you are thinking about 2011 (he did lead the league in gidp that year though)

[Lou]

Ok, I'll bet you $10k that Trout won't have a sub-.650 ops in 2025. 

[thebloob]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Ok, I'll bet you $10k that Trout won't have a sub-.650 ops in 2025. 

Um,  im not really sure of your point. Of course he won’t, he’ll be 35.  While after that last at bat Pujols is sitting at .647, he has never posted that low for a season.  How about I take your bet if you bet double or nothing that he won’t post an ops of 1.200 in 2025. 

[Lou]

"Are you telling that NO ONE else on these boards has concerns that in 5-6 years they will be talking about trout like they talk about Pujols now?"

Nobody is talking about Pujols like they were in 2010. 

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, thebloob said:

Um,  im not really sure of your point. Of course he won’t, he’ll be 35.  While after that last at bat Pujols is sitting at .647, he has never posted that low for a season.  How about I take your bet if you bet double or nothing that he won’t post an ops of 1.200 in 2025. 

That isn't anything close to what you originally said.

[thebloob]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

That isn't anything close to what you originally said.

That’s correct.  I used all different words.