Blue Jays are monitoring multiple Angels players

[Chuck]

5 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Tellez with a 3-hit, 2-homer game today

If we trade for Tellez he better be a throw in @rafibomb.

This team needs SP's way more than overweight first basemen. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

If we trade for Tellez he better be a throw in @rafibomb.

This team needs SP's way more than overweight first basemen. 

We already have one of those.  

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

If we trade for Tellez he better be a throw in @rafibomb.

This team needs SP's way more than overweight first basemen. 

We’re probably not getting those for La Stella, Simmons, or Castro though. At least no one markedly better than what we currently have for young starter stock. 

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

We’re probably not getting those for La Stella, Simmons, or Castro though. At least no one markedly better than what we currently have for young starter stock. 

I mean, if we can get Tellez and Richardson for Castro and La Stella I would do it. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I mean, if we can get Tellez and Richardson for Castro and La Stella I would do it. 

Pujols would then have to accept occasional 1B starts and say 40-50 DH starts in 2021.

Is it weird to think of eventually a Trout, Adell, and Adams OF by 2023, with Marsh at 1B?

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Pujols would then have to accept occasional 1B starts and say 40-50 DH starts in 2021.

Is it weird to think of eventually a Trout, Adell, and Adams OF by 2023, with Marsh at 1B?

marsh is a waste at 1b. i wouldn't understand any long term plan that has him playing 1b.

[Tyler]

The Angels don't have a choice--they have to trade Simmons for pitching.

[stormngt]

10 hours ago, totdprods said:

Found one article online that was 100% speculating some deals, and it had the Angels sending La Stella and Simmons to Toronto for 1B Rowdy Tellez and RHP T.J. Zeuch. 

Not a particularly exciting trade, but Tellez could be a good player to add to the 1B mix even if he’s just a .230/.300/.450 guy with good pop. Could clear up the Ward, Walsh, Thaiss logjam a bit and sit Albert more. Zeuch has decent minor league numbers and a bit of upside. Both have years of control still.

Also had the Angels sending Castro to Tampa for SS Taylor Walls, a switch-hitter with strong defense and relatively average offensive numbers in the minors. He’s buried in their depth charts. Maybe an Andrew Romine type. 

Considering all three are pending free agents I think I’d pull the trigger on both those deals and see how the kids play out the year.

I would rather extend Simmons and La Stella and have La Stella play first.

Any trade that doesn't bring us back litching would be malpractice.

In fact ideally trade those two for pitching and then sign both back as free agents.

No I dont think we can get an Ace but we could get some decent relief pitchers.

[Docwaukee]

I could see Eppler targeting Julian Merryweather and/or Tom Hatch.  Maybe Patrick Murphy.  

I know we need pitching, but bear in mind that losing both Simmons and La Stella puts a dent in our IF depth.  Unless of course you still consider Jam Jones and Matt Thaiss part of that.  We might see Eppler go after a middle infielder.  He might get more value there because everyone is gonna want pitching.  

[Blarg]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:02 AM, GrittyVeterans said:

You guys all sure turned on Adell remarkably quickly. Almost everyone was against trading him for 5 years of Yellich at a ridiculously cheap price. And now want him traded for another prospect(Groshans?) that was lower ranked 4 months ago? Seems absurd to me to change your mind that radically based on 20 ballgames

 

 

The Marlins got four players in the Yelich trade. One 1st rounder and 2 second round picks along with a throw in 14th rounder. Basically a talent offer greater than Adel on his own, so a comparable trade would include two #2 picks like Canning and Marsh or Jones to equal the trade balance. 

That is why there was an objection to trading Adel, it included stripping the farm of the top talent for Yelich. Trading Adel now is just a short sighted knee jerk reaction to his premature start in the Majors. So the trade talk foolishness continues.

[angelsnationtalk]

9 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Pujols would then have to accept occasional 1B starts and say 40-50 DH starts in 2021.

Is it weird to think of eventually a Trout, Adell, and Adams OF by 2023, with Marsh at 1B?

Marsh has better defense than Adams and Adell combined. 

If worst comes to worst put Adell there 

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

The Marlins got four players in the Yelich trade. One 1st rounder and 2 second round picks along with a throw in 14th rounder. Basically a talent offer greater than Adel on his own, so a comparable trade would include two #2 picks like Canning and Marsh or Jones to equal the trade balance. 

That is why there was an objection to trading Adel, it included stripping the farm of the top talent for Yelich. Trading Adel now is just a short sighted knee jerk reaction to his premature start in the Majors. So the trade talk foolishness continues.

Not to mention the best player they got was ranked higher than Adell was at the time the trade was made. 

[totdprods]

8 hours ago, stormngt said:

I would rather extend Simmons and La Stella and have La Stella play first.

Any trade that doesn't bring us back litching would be malpractice.

In fact ideally trade those two for pitching and then sign both back as free agents.

No I dont think we can get an Ace but we could get some decent relief pitchers.

Of course we'd all prefer to get pitching back, but it's also pretty likely a team like the Jays would be really hesitant to part with pitching. They need all they can get. 

Generalizing very broadly, would you rather trade Simmons/La Stella/Castro for a B-rated infielder or a C-rated pitcher? Or nothing? There's a chance Toronto doesn't even offer up C-level pitching prospects because they want to maintain their own depth or use their better pitching prospects in the offseason to target long-term help in the outfield or rotation. They're only buying one month's worth of rentals here. 

We ned quality players across the board still. The struggles of Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Walsh, Hermosillo prove that even our own AAA depth isn't very productive. If the best prospect we can get for an expiring contract is an infielder, outfielder, pitcher, catcher, reliever, whatever - I'll take it over nothing. 

If we want quality pitching, we're only going to get it if we part with Fletcher, Adell, Marsh, Goodwin, Bundy or bigger deals involving our own pitching, i.e. Canning, Buttrey.

[totdprods]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I could see Eppler targeting Julian Merryweather and/or Tom Hatch.  Maybe Patrick Murphy.  

I know we need pitching, but bear in mind that losing both Simmons and La Stella puts a dent in our IF depth.  Unless of course you still consider Jam Jones and Matt Thaiss part of that.  We might see Eppler go after a middle infielder.  He might get more value there because everyone is gonna want pitching.  

That's why I think it's also hard to judge hypothetical deals case-by-case right now too. 

He could do exactly what's mentioned above - La Stella and Simmons for Tellez and Zeuch, and Castro for Walls, and it would look like he ignored pitching.

But he could turn right around and swap Bundy and Rengifo to the Dodgers for Gonsolin and a reliever, Goodwin, Thaiss and Marsh to the Indians for Clevinger, and he's added four pitchers. 
Rengifo and Thaiss being easier to deal now with Walls and Tellez in the org.

[angelsnationtalk]

I still don't want to trade Adell, but would anyone do this crazy idea?

1) Trade package of Adell + Simmons + others for a top 30MLB pitching prospect who's almost mlb ready
2) Buyout Pujols
3) Try for Upton to waive NTC and move him for a bag of peanuts to free a little more $ (or as much as you can; just salary dump)
4) Trade Castro for possible Buttrey/Sandoval type guy. Bullpen help
5) Extend Bundy, get him on the cheap
6) Make run for Kumar Rocker or Jack Leiter . (TANK SZN)
7) Sign Bauer for 1yr deal
(8) Sign Realmuto 4-5yr deal (replaces Pujols' contract)

2021 Rotation: Bauer, *traded guy*, Bundy, Ohtani, Canning, Detmers
2022 Rotation: Rocker, *traded guy*, Detmers, Bundy, Ohtani, Canning

Lineup 2021:
Fletcher (SS)
LaStella (1B)
Trout (CF)
Rendon (3B)
Ohtani (DH)
Realmuto (C)
Marsh (RF)
Goodwin (LF)
Rengifo (2B)

I know people might freak out by seeing another big contract going to a position player. It would figure out the Catching area for awhile and our pitching staff is young not costing much $

Sound crazy? Yes. but it would get us young, controllable arms in the rotation and by 2022 it would be 4 first round guys in the rotation. Could be one of the best lineups in baseball with a very solid rotation.

Gotta give a little to get a little.....

[totdprods]

You lose me at buyout Pujols and trade Upton...both of those are so unlikely, and even if you can pull off a trade of Upton, it likely comes with some sort of negative consequence you aren’t accounting for, such as taking on Johnny Cueto’s contract, or continuing to pay nearly all of Upton’s contract (which starts to rule out Bauer AND Realmuto, maybe even only one of them), or including a top prospect.

For me it’s also too much reliance on free agency. Billy has always traded well. If he is going to do anything to save his job and help the club before his deal runs out, it needs to be some bold trades now or before his contract expires this winter.

[Angel]

57 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Of course we'd all prefer to get pitching back, but it's also pretty likely a team like the Jays would be really hesitant to part with pitching. They need all they can get. 

Generalizing very broadly, would you rather trade Simmons/La Stella/Castro for a B-rated infielder or a C-rated pitcher? Or nothing? There's a chance Toronto doesn't even offer up C-level pitching prospects because they want to maintain their own depth or use their better pitching prospects in the offseason to target long-term help in the outfield or rotation. They're only buying one month's worth of rentals here. 

We ned quality players across the board still. The struggles of Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Walsh, Hermosillo prove that even our own AAA depth isn't very productive. If the best prospect we can get for an expiring contract is an infielder, outfielder, pitcher, catcher, reliever, whatever - I'll take it over nothing. 

If we want quality pitching, we're only going to get it if we part with Fletcher, Adell, Marsh, Goodwin, Bundy or bigger deals involving our own pitching, i.e. Canning, Buttrey.

I feel like trading Bundy for 'pitching' is going to backfire badly.   Dude's our only reliable starting pitcher basically, he has earned his keep as far as I'm concerned.

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, totdprods said:

You lose me at buyout Pujols and trade Upton...both of those are so unlikely, and even if you can pull off a trade of Upton, it likely comes with some sort of negative consequence you aren’t accounting for, such as taking on Johnny Cueto’s contract, or continuing to pay nearly all of Upton’s contract (which starts to rule out Bauer AND Realmuto, maybe even only one of them), or including a top prospect.

For me it’s also too much reliance on free agency. Billy has always traded well. If he is going to do anything to save his job and help the club before his deal runs out, it needs to be some bold trades now or before his contract expires this winter.

Realmuto is probably the best all around catcher in MLB (OPS and throwing out base stealers).    One important thing does admittedly make that signing very unlikely, though.

He's 30 next season, and is going to command at the least 5 years/$125-$150 million.   The Halos need to get out of that business (long term FA contracts) for the next half-decade and build a perpetually strong farm and MLB team.    Bauer is asking for small contracts/large dollars each season, and thus easier to work around.

Bauer and Gausman sounds good to me.    Simba, Stella, and Castro could likely be re-signed for not much more than they are getting now.   Arte can take a one year tax threshold hit, since no loss of draft pick/slot money or int'l slot money is incurred.    Pujols' freed money after 2021 puts Arte back under the tax threshold.   Have Stella work out at 1B all winter, and limit Pujols to 80 DH/1B starts combined in 2021.   

Only thing left then is hoping for a decent enough rebound for Upton in 2021, so that they can trade him after 2021 and hopefully free up at least $7 million out of the $28 million due in 2022, to ensure not being over tax threshold for a second straight season (draft pick/int'l slot money penalties starting then). 

Bauer, Bundy, Heaney, Gausman, Sandoval, and Canning (with Detmers almost ready and Barria/Pena for depth) for 2021 sounds a whole lot better than what they have currently. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

I wonder how many people on IndiansWin are pissed that they didn't trade Jose Ramirez because he was obviously going to revert back to his inferior self.  

[m0nkey]

On 8/25/2020 at 12:46 PM, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yeah but I am not sure the Angels are getting any “top prospects.”

In 2018 Patrick Sandoval was a pretty good haul for a 2-month rental of Maldonado, and I don’t know if there are many Patrick Sandovals in 60-player pools. 
 

The lower level really good prospects aren’t attainable and the upper level mediocre prospects are guys like Jaime Barría. 
 

Im not saying you can’t get a deal done but it limits your options significantly. 

If a team has less than 60 guys in the player pool, can’t they just add someone to trade them right away? I thought I saw a team(s) do that on a recent trade. 

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Angel said:

I feel like trading Bundy for 'pitching' is going to backfire badly.   Dude's our only reliable starting pitcher basically, he has earned his keep as far as I'm concerned.

I don’t want to trade Bundy at all. I think they should try and sign him to a 3/$30m Lance Lynn type deal ASAP. Even if he reverts that’s decent money for a back of the rotation innings eater. If he progresses, it’s a steal. In both cases, the contract isn’t prohibitive and he maintains trade value over the life of the deal. In many ways, the fact that Lynn is available helps Bundy’s value. I see them pretty similarly and if the Rangers are asking a fortune for him, the Angels offering Lynn 2.0 could get someone to overpay for him, thinking they’re getting a deal.

That said, if Los Angeles, Toronto or San Diego offered a Top 100 prospect, especially an MLB-ready arm because they have plenty and want to win this year and next, and another intriguing piece or two, it’d be hard to turn down. I’m talking Ruiz, Gonsolin, Gray, Graterol, Groshans, Richardson, Patino, Campusano, Morejon, plus another piece or two with immediate impact or future upside. 

And it would have to be made within the context of some other deals. Dealing Bundy wouldn’t be enough to rebuild our 2021 hopes. We’d need to be cashing in on Goodwin/Marsh or at least dealing the expiring vets for other pieces to contribute next year, because even the Bundy return won’t tilt the needle. We need to shuffle the deck more than that.

[Angel]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don’t want to trade Bundy at all. I think they should try and sign him to a 3/$30m Lance Lynn type deal ASAP. Even if he reverts that’s decent money for a back of the rotation innings eater. If he progresses, it’s a steal. In both cases, the contract isn’t prohibitive and he maintains trade value over the life of the deal. In many ways, the fact that Lynn is available helps Bundy’s value. I see them pretty similarly and if the Rangers are asking a fortune for him, the Angels offering Lynn 2.0 could get someone to overpay for him, thinking they’re getting a deal.

That said, if Los Angeles, Toronto or San Diego offered a Top 100 prospect, especially an MLB-ready arm because they have plenty and want to win this year and next, and another intriguing piece or two, it’d be hard to turn down. I’m talking Ruiz, Gonsolin, Gray, Graterol, Groshans, Richardson, Patino, Campusano, Morejon, plus another piece or two with immediate impact or future upside. 

And it would have to be made within the context of some other deals. Dealing Bundy wouldn’t be enough to rebuild our 2021 hopes. We’d need to be cashing in on Goodwin/Marsh or at least dealing the expiring vets for other pieces to contribute next year, because even the Bundy return won’t tilt the needle. We need to shuffle the deck more than that.

Great post,

 

I can't see paragraph two happening for various reasons not excluding team's look at the Angels as an injured or dead animal in the road, they kind of just stay out of our way.  We basically need to coddle any arms that show promise and never let go, so far we've got Ohtani and Bundy looking like good future return.

[Stradling]

The road to being competitive doesn't have to be a long one, but it starts with us trading for Clevinger if you can get him for a package centered around Marsh. If you get Clevinger and then sign a guy like Bauer and retain Bundy then you have a legit staff.  If this Bundy we have seen this year is real going forward, which once again it has only been 5-6 starts, and he is your #2 or #3 then you can compete.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angel said:

Great post, I can't see paragraph two happening for various reasons not excluding team's look at the Angels as an injured or dead animal in the road, they kind of just stay out of our way.

this is pretty dumb  

[Angel]

Just now, Stradling said:

this is pretty dumb  

you're dumb