Eppler at deadline

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Ya I don’t see them fixing the pitching in the trade market. Everyone wants Clevinger and it’s not gonna happen. Next offseason, go after Bauer or Stroman, bring back Richards on a decent deal. He’ll be 33, but everyone wanted those types of guys last offseason so... 

Sign a reliever or a closer or both. Pen has been a dumpster fire and inherited runners seem to be let in every time they are on. 

I’d bring back Castro as he’s been fine. He and Stassi make a good platoon. They need to decide what to do with Simmons now. I doubt LaStella returns. I doubt Teheran is back but who knows. 
 

They don’t have an infielder except Jam Jones who might be ready to contribute at 2nd in 21, so do they keep Fletcher there and try to resign Simmons? Or do they move Fletcher to SS full time? And grab a 2B in free agency?

This team isn’t that far away. They’ve had a lot of terrible luck this season. 1-4 in extras alone. just 4 saves and  8 blown saves.

I’d trade LaStella and Goodwin and evening Castro now. I’d try to hang on to Bundy and Canning but the rest of the rotation is also up for the block.

 I’m not expecting a huge return or a blockbuster trade, but they got Ty Buttrey a few years ago for Kinsler? Same type of return for LaStella I think and maybe a bit more. Same for Goodwin on a OF needy team. 
 

Pujols last year with the team is next year and I expect he gets 100 starts between DH and 1B. It’s been a bad contract but they won’t release him. Upton likely is impossible to move now and won’t be movable this offseason unless they eat a lot of the contract and then what’s the point of moving him. He’s got to play to prove he can still hit so he becomes tradeable , so trading Goodwin makes some sense so he can play. 

 

Agree except that rental players don’t get the attention they used to.   Player control is the big thing now.

Because of that, it’s probably better to focus on Bundy and Goodwin trades, and hold on to Stella and Castro and try to re-sign them if possible.

[Docwaukee]

don't fire him now.  He'll do his job through the deadline if he's kept.  He's a professional unlike his predecessor.  

He's got to dance at some point though.  Mega deals are easy.  Pay a guy a shit ton of money.  1yr deals are easy.  Good or bad, they go away.  

Get a couple 2, 3, 4 year deals right and you look like a rockstar.  Get them wrong and you look like a schlep.  

I understand that those are almost impossible to gauge but at some point, you have to get into that market.  Even if you know it's risky.  Chances are you're going to get a hot turd but at some point your team is going to need you to take a risk.  So it's two things.  When do you take the risk, and who do you take it on?  

Maybe this is overly arrogant, but I can sign guys to mega deal or 1yr contracts.  Differentiate yourself.  Show us that you're capable of differentiating between Lance Lynn and Nate Eovaldi.  Otherwise, I can do your job and no one wants that.  No one wants to see arm chair gms with a similar success rate.  

Risk is part of the job.  At some point you have to expose your neck.  I understand not doing it 2-3 years ago when there were risk averse moves that could improve the franchise, but you've done that and done so fairly well.  There comes a time to differentiate yourself or you're gonna float around in limbo forever.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

30 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Might not have been worded the best.

It just seems that the best way to build long term success is through the farm system and strategic trades, focusing on only keeping the best of your own FAs and not relying on big money acquisitions from outside the org.

Concur on your last sentence, and that’s the purpose of my post.

This is 1000 percent correct.

This is why I have been telling everyone lately that your frustration at Eppler’s failure to build a pitching staff from November-January is misplaced. The failure has been from February-August: drafting and development.

That’s the only way to build a pitching staff. The good starters in other organizations aren’t available unless you have a lot to trade (again, drafting and development). If you have to wait for free agency, they are older, more injury prone much more expensive and may not even want to sign with you, no matter what you offer.

Even if the Angels had Cole right now, how good would they be if they got the same performances out of Heaney, Canning, Sandoval, Ohtani?

It’s about developing your own. Always has been.

(edit: Yes I know that Heaney and Sandoval came in trades. Heaney had barely pitched in the majors and Sandoval not at all, so I still consider them to be essentially “home grown.” Much of the A’s young talent also came in trades, which they do a lot more because they trade away their big leaguers and the Angels don’t until the last minute when their value is lower.)

Edited August 24, 2020 by Jeff Fletcher

[kevinb]

44 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Isn’t that exactly what they’ve done?

Its why they limit themselves to 4-5 serious FA pursuits each year and if they don’t get them they turn to 1-year deals in the bargain bin, where there are really no deals that hurt you long term. 

For me it seems like they rely on free agents way more than they should. Whether it be one year deals or multi year deals they also haven't traded off people as much as I would have liked either. This team hasn't had a winning record since Eppler has been here finished 4th a couple times and are currently 5th and they seem to be still trying to keep guys for the sake of keeping guys. But those are just issues I have had with the Angels the last couple of years. Hopefully Eppler can sell of anything that has value and that isn't in our long term plans, for young prospects with some upside here in the next whatever many days it is till the deadline. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Whether it be one year deals or multi year deals

I would argue that these are entirely different things. The class of players is different and the risk is different.

I think Eppler basically agrees with you: You should be super careful on the multi year deals, which why he has hardly give out any. Cozart, Rendon and Upton (sort of). That’s it. 
 

If you still have holes that aren’t filled that way or with your own guys, one-year deals (Cahill, Harvey, Allen, Teheran), rental trades (Kinsler) or waiver/minor league deals (Peña, Petit, Norris, Noe Ramirez, Robles, Goodwin, etc) are essentially the low risk ways to find place holders until one of your prospects fits or an Anthony Rendon or Andrelton Simmons deal is possible.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I would argue that these are entirely different things. The class of players is different and the risk is different.

I think Eppler basically agrees with you: You should be super careful on the multi year deals, which why he has hardly give out any. Cozart, Rendon and Upton (sort of). That’s it. 
 

If you still have holes that aren’t filled that way or with your own guys, one-year deals (Cahill, Harvey, Allen, Teheran), rental trades (Kinsler) or waiver/minor league deals (Peña, Petit, Norris, Noe Ramirez, Robles, Goodwin, etc) are essentially the low risk ways to find place holders until one of your prospects fits or an Anthony Rendon or Andrelton Simmons deal is possible.

I’d agree and disagree I guess with that point. Even with one year deals you’re still hamstringing the club for one year. What Eppler did when he signed Cahill Allen and Harvey was purely insane. He gave out a lot of money for three guys that produced the same amount that someone league minimum could have produced at a fraction of the cost. At the end of the day you’re right that it doesn’t hamstring the team long term but it still costs money. Money that could be saved for something else down the road. Don’t just spend money to spend money. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

I’d agree and disagree I guess with that point. Even with one year deals you’re still hamstringing the club for one year. What Eppler did when he signed Cahill Allen and Harvey was purely insane. He gave out a lot of money for three guys that produced the same amount that someone league minimum could have produced at a fraction of the cost. At the end of the day you’re right that it doesn’t hamstring the team long term but it still costs money. Money that could be saved for something else down the road. Don’t just spend money to spend money. 

Obviously they weren’t planning on those guys sucking. They didn’t really have to be all-star caliber to be worth the money they were paid. They just had to be average, and none of them were. He went 0 for 3. But it’s an 0 for 3 that had no long-term impact.