Trade for a Blue Jays Catcher?

[totdprods]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/blue-jays-catchers-drawing-trade-interest.html

Seems like any one of these guys could be a reasonable target for the Angels, even the minor league prospects the Jays have.

[floplag]

The problem youre going to face is that no one here wants to deal anything that it will take to make it happen.
Im being sarcastic sure but the idea of trades around here seems to be very negative unless its a no brainer silly trade that would never happen.
I think trading for a long term answer makes a lot of sense, be it from Tor or SD or maybe even Cin... but your not going to get that for 2 nobodies from Arkansas.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Give 'em Pujols. They owe us for Vernon Wells.

[tdawg87]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

The problem youre going to face is that no one here wants to deal anything that it will take to make it happen.
Im being sarcastic sure but the idea of trades around here seems to be very negative unless its a no brainer silly trade that would never happen.
I think trading for a long term answer makes a lot of sense, be it from Tor or SD or maybe even Cin... but your not going to get that for 2 nobodies from Arkansas.

Yep.

Although in this case I think we could swing a trade for Reese McGuire without giving up a ton, though he does have a lot of years of control. Depends on what they want I guess. 

[eligrba]

Pay the money for Grandal.  He checks more boxes for the Angels than Cole.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Pay the money for Grandal.  He checks more boxes for the Angels than Cole.

i don't know about "more", but i would put him #2 personally.
I don't think it fits but if i can get Cole, Grandal, and a solid #2 pitcher id be ecstatic. 

[eligrba]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

i don't know about "more", but i would put him #2 personally.
I don't think it fits but if i can get Cole, Grandal, and a solid #2 pitcher id be ecstatic. 

I am thinking Grandal improves the pitching staff and offense whereas Cole only improves one day out of five.

Edited November 10, 2019 by eligrba

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I am thinking Grandal improves the pitching staff and offense whereas Cole only improves one day out of five.

I get that, and i agree and generally put more stock in guys that play everyday... BUT, this team needs a front line pitcher before anything else at this point.

[tdawg87]

20 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I am thinking Grandal improves the pitching staff and offense whereas Cole only improves one day out of five.

With all due respect, this is the worst take I've ever seen.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

9 hours ago, eligrba said:

I am thinking Grandal improves the pitching staff and offense whereas Cole only improves one day out of five.

It would take a hell of a lot more the Grandal to fix our pitching...

Edited November 11, 2019 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[AngelStew43]

Said this before, but Austin Barnes is blocked by both Smith and Ruiz in the Dodgers system.  He could time share with any number of catchers that we'd bring in, or he could platoon with either one of our in house options, and the cost to obtain him would be very reasonable.

[Lou]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

With all due respect, this is the worst take I've ever seen.

there's a rally gorilla in these parts that disagrees

[nate]

Cubs have a nice stable of catchers as well.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, nate said:

Cubs have a nice stable of catchers as well.

Didn't know Lackey converted to catcher.

[totdprods]

None of these guys should really cost all too much...

• Luke Maile, 29 in 2020, is a non-tender candidate, projected to earn $800k. Hits and throws right-handed.
  • Came up in the Tampa org while Maddon was there, but did not play on a Maddon coached MLB team.
  • Might actually be a worse hitter than Stassi - .198/.252/.304/.556 in 657 PA with 30 doubles, 10 HR, 40 BB, 179 K
  • Wasn't much of a hitter in the minors either - career slash of .253/.331/.357/.688
  • Solid 33% CS% in the bigs though.
  • Really doesn't seem all that different from Stassi, also projected to make $800k, except with less upside and not currently injured.
• Danny Jansen, 25, comes with at least one option remaining, still pre-arb, hits and throws right-handed.
  • 16th round pick, was a very good hitter in his last two seasons in the minors, .884 OPS  in '17 across A+ through AAA, .863 OPS in '18 at AAA
  • In the majors, he has a .215/.293/.374/.667 OPS and a 79 OPS+ across 562 PA with 41 XBH, 47 BB, 113 K
  • Relatively small-sample size 26% CS%, including a 31% mark in 2019. It's in-line with a career 25% mark in the minors. 
  • Age offers some upside and potential, but even with hitting-friendly AL East ballparks, his line isn't terribly exciting. 
  • The fact he has options, age, potential, and offensive and defensive upside makes him sort of a better version of Stassi - worth pursuing, in my mind.
• Reese McGuire, also 25 in 2020, hits left-handed and throws right-handed. Believe he will be out of options. 
  • Former 1st round pick of the Pirates, he was a Top 100 prospect (#50-#100 range) around '14-'15.
  • Aside from a .859 OPS in '17 in only 45 games, he's been a fairly mediocre hitter in the minors, with a .261/.325/.347/.672 career slash.
  • In limited MLB action though, 138 PA in 44 G across two years, he's hit .297/.343/.539/.882, with 17 XBH, 9 BB, 27 K.
  • Strong 36% CS% in the minors, only 21% CS% in limited MLB play. 
  • Catchers tend to come around a little later, so he still has a shot at becoming an above-average MLB catcher. Did his bat happen to turn a corner right when he reached the bigs?
  • Still the #25 prospect on Toronto's Top 30 at MLB.com
• Gabriel Moreno (#8), will be 20 in 2020, likely ticketed for A/A+. Hits and throws right-handed. Signed for $25k out of Venezuela.
  • Career .294/.339/.468/.807 hitter in the minors, with 38 doubles, 8 triples, 16 HR, 35 BB, 63 K in 154 G/643 PA, and a 33% CS%
• Alejandro Kirk (#12), will be 21 in 2020, likely ticketed for A+/AA. Also hits and throws right-handed. Signed out of Mexico. 
  • Career .315/.418/.500/.918 hitter in the minors, with 41 doubles, 2 triples, 17 HR, 89 BB, 60 K in 151 G/619 PA with a 38% CS%. 
  • Sort of get some Willians Astudillo-vibe from him. 5'9", 220, big contact skills and a great eye.
• Riley Adams (#27), will be 24 in 2020, probably in AA again, though AAA isn't out of the question. 
  • 3rd round pick in '17, born in Encinitas, graduate of University of San Diego. 6'4", 225, hits and throws right-handed. 
  • Career .265/.363/.410/.773 hitter - in 2019, at A+/AA he hit .261/.366/.443/.809 with 18 doubles, 2 triples, 14 HR, 46 BB, 123 K, 29% CS%

[ettin]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

None of these guys should really cost all too much...

• Luke Maile, 29 in 2020, is a non-tender candidate, projected to earn $800k. Hits and throws right-handed.
  • Came up in the Tampa org while Maddon was there, but did not play on a Maddon coached MLB team.
  • Might actually be a worse hitter than Stassi - .198/.252/.304/.556 in 657 PA with 30 doubles, 10 HR, 40 BB, 179 K
  • Wasn't much of a hitter in the minors either - career slash of .253/.331/.357/.688
  • Solid 33% CS% in the bigs though.
  • Really doesn't seem all that different from Stassi, also projected to make $800k, except with less upside and not currently injured.
• Danny Jansen, 25, comes with at least one option remaining, still pre-arb, hits and throws right-handed.
  • 16th round pick, was a very good hitter in his last two seasons in the minors, .884 OPS  in '17 across A+ through AAA, .863 OPS in '18 at AAA
  • In the majors, he has a .215/.293/.374/.667 OPS and a 79 OPS+ across 562 PA with 41 XBH, 47 BB, 113 K
  • Relatively small-sample size 26% CS%, including a 31% mark in 2019. It's in-line with a career 25% mark in the minors. 
  • Age offers some upside and potential, but even with hitting-friendly AL East ballparks, his line isn't terribly exciting. 
  • The fact he has options, age, potential, and offensive and defensive upside makes him sort of a better version of Stassi - worth pursuing, in my mind.
• Reese McGuire, also 25 in 2020, hits left-handed and throws right-handed. Believe he will be out of options. 
  • Former 1st round pick of the Pirates, he was a Top 100 prospect (#50-#100 range) around '14-'15.
  • Aside from a .859 OPS in '17 in only 45 games, he's been a fairly mediocre hitter in the minors, with a .261/.325/.347/.672 career slash.
  • In limited MLB action though, 138 PA in 44 G across two years, he's hit .297/.343/.539/.882, with 17 XBH, 9 BB, 27 K.
  • Strong 36% CS% in the minors, only 21% CS% in limited MLB play. 
  • Catchers tend to come around a little later, so he still has a shot at becoming an above-average MLB catcher. Did his bat happen to turn a corner right when he reached the bigs?
  • Still the #25 prospect on Toronto's Top 30 at MLB.com
• Gabriel Moreno (#8), will be 20 in 2020, likely ticketed for A/A+. Hits and throws right-handed. Signed for $25k out of Venezuela.
  • Career .294/.339/.468/.807 hitter in the minors, with 38 doubles, 8 triples, 16 HR, 35 BB, 63 K in 154 G/643 PA, and a 33% CS%
• Alejandro Kirk (#12), will be 21 in 2020, likely ticketed for A+/AA. Also hits and throws right-handed. Signed out of Mexico. 
  • Career .315/.418/.500/.918 hitter in the minors, with 41 doubles, 2 triples, 17 HR, 89 BB, 60 K in 151 G/619 PA with a 38% CS%. 
  • Sort of get some Willians Astudillo-vibe from him. 5'9", 220, big contact skills and a great eye.
• Riley Adams (#27), will be 24 in 2020, probably in AA again, though AAA isn't out of the question. 
  • 3rd round pick in '17, born in Encinitas, graduate of University of San Diego. 6'4", 225, hits and throws right-handed. 
  • Career .265/.363/.410/.773 hitter - in 2019, at A+/AA he hit .261/.366/.443/.809 with 18 doubles, 2 triples, 14 HR, 46 BB, 123 K, 29% CS%

It really seems like the three prospects (Adams, Kirk, and Moreno) are not ready for the Majors yet.

Out of the remaining three McGuire certainly looks like the Blue Jays catcher of the future, particularly when you consider the scarceness of the market for defensively-gifted catchers that can hit. I suspect the Blue Jays will run with a McGuire/Jansen platoon in 2020 to get them additional experience with their pitching staff so the Jays can make a big push into the Division in 2021.

That leaves Maile who I actually like. He is a good defender, has one option left according to Roster Resource, and is affordable at $800K. He hits LHP better than RHP but he seems to have a decent eye to take a walk against both sides of the plate. It is the defense that Eppler will want and this guy certainly has that in his repertoire.

More importantly Maile can be had for a loose Rondon peanut.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

It really seems like the three prospects (Adams, Kirk, and Moreno) are not ready for the Majors yet.

Out of the remaining three McGuire certainly looks like the Blue Jays catcher of the future, particularly when you consider the scarceness of the market for defensively-gifted catchers that can hit. I suspect the Blue Jays will run with a McGuire/Jansen platoon in 2020 to get them additional experience with their pitching staff so the Jays can make a big push into the Division in 2021.

That leaves Maile who I actually like. He is a good defender, has one option left according to Roster Resource, and is affordable at $800K. He hits LHP better than RHP but he seems to have a decent eye to take a walk against both sides of the plate. It is the defense that Eppler will want and this guy certainly has that in his repertoire.

More importantly Maile can be had for a loose Rondon peanut.

It'd be less about getting them for the big-league help, and more about getting a catcher prospect in our system. 
I know the prospect for prospect deals don't happen often, but the Angels have guys like Deveaux, Knowles, Martinez, Lund, Hermosillo that all could probably equal something there. 
There's also the idea of shopping someone like a Bedrosian or even Goodwin to the Jays as they could use help in both areas - the Angels shed a couple mil, gain a legit catching prospect (ideally something else too). 

It sucks, but the Angels could (they certainly don't have to) non-tender Stassi since he might be injured to start the year, try to re-sign him to a minor-league deal off the 40-man, and they'd basically re-acquire Stassi in the form of a very small trade for Maile, who as mentioned, should come very cheaply.

Non-tendering Kevan Smith to save $1m feels a little more likely to me, in my opinion. Regardless of who the Angels get for primary catcher, finding someone who can be optioned or with a little more clearer skill-set behind the plate as back-up makes sense.

[floplag]

With regard to two comments....
#1 that one of the could be had for a loose peanut, and #2 that its more about depth in the system.... 
If it can be had for a loose peanut, is it really worth having?  where is the impact?
For me the desire to look at catchers is not about depth, but the big league roster.  Right now we have 2 guys that cant hit at all at least one thats supposedly good defensively, and one that can hit a little but isnt that great defensively.  Wouldnt it be nice to have someone that ticked both boxes?

[Inside Pitch]

14 minutes ago, ettin said:

It really seems like the three prospects (Adams, Kirk, and Moreno) are not ready for the Majors yet.

The list of Low A catchers to flame out upon reaching AA is long and undistinguished -- the Jays in particular have a rather extensive history of it -- Max Pentecost is the most recent example.    It's not even about the Jays, it's just baseball.  Catchers remain the attrition kings when it comes to reaching the majors and those that do make it, few are legit two way players.

I kinda understand why Eppler has traded for guys at the MLB level .vs guys in Low A..     

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

Right now we have 2 guys that cant hit at all at least one thats supposedly good defensively, and one that can hit a little but isnt that great defensively.  Wouldnt it be nice to have someone that ticked both boxes?

This is more about finding a guy to be the back-up, replacing the guys we currently have that can't seem to do much of either. 

If they were fortunate enough to get Jansen or McGuire for a cheap price, neither really are proven to be capable of checking both boxes right out of the gate, but could turn into that as soon as this year. And it would save money for pitching.

[floplag]

32 minutes ago, totdprods said:

This is more about finding a guy to be the back-up, replacing the guys we currently have that can't seem to do much of either. 

If they were fortunate enough to get Jansen or McGuire for a cheap price, neither really are proven to be capable of checking both boxes right out of the gate, but could turn into that as soon as this year. And it would save money for pitching.

WE have 3 "backups" at this point, why do we need more? 

[Cdaniel]

25 minutes ago, floplag said:

WE have 3 "backups" at this point, why do we need more? 

Projection.  Maldy was a backup with the Brewers before the Angels squired him

[Duren, Duren]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

WE have 3 "backups" at this point, why do we need more? 

Backup catchers have their role. Sometimes under appreciated. Not sexy or high profile, but useful on winning teams. 

Specialist starters for specific pitchers who they can finesse effectively to better production. Platoon roles against certain teams and pitchers. Pinch hitting. Defensive replacement. And if experienced, spreading insight as a quasi coach amongst the pitching staff. 

That kind of player is usually suited to contending teams, who have the luxury of fine tuning a roster with specialists who aren't counted on to be major starters.

The perfect catcher available now for this role is Russell Martin. He ticks all the boxes above, and was a useful addition to the Dodgers of 2019. At his age he is nearing the end of his career, but if he was available for one year at a bargain price he could fill a role for the Angels.

Mentor whoever the Angels use ahead of him. And share knowledge with the pitching staff. Start with a specific pitcher(s)if they find chemistry during spring training. Proven pinch hitter. Still has decent speed for his position. Can fill in at third base and elsewhere. Already in SoCal.

Not likely a necessity given the more pressing need of a longer term, quality catcher, but in general, a useful roster player.

 

[floplag]

Just now, Cdaniel said:

Projection.  Maldy was a backup with the Brewers before the Angels squired him

But thats not getting them to be a backup or depth then is it?  

[totdprods]

32 minutes ago, floplag said:

WE have 3 "backups" at this point, why do we need more? 

To get a better one?