Payroll and Roster management for 2019/20

[Angelsjunky]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

good luck on turning over a roster every 3-5 years.  Is there a historical precedent for doing what you've mentioned?  I think you're just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.  Again, I guess if that's what you expect then you're always going to be disappointed.  You talk about realistic being viewed as pessimism.  We're not a WS contender in 4 years so we suck.  I've got nothing for ya.  

The Marlins did that twice.

Crazy to think that the Marlins are two-time WS champions.

[Stradling]

Ok and now that Beltre is gone that one doesn’t matter anymore.  We would need to sign a 3rd baseman.  What if instead of Max we went all in on David Price and he regressed like he has, or Chris Sale and he is now on the shelf, or Darvish any of the long list of best starters available.  Also if we signed those we would still need to fix all the other holes.  Oh and remember when they singed Albert because he was the best available?  

[Claude]

17 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

 "We're doing the best we can."

Arte Moreno

His definition of best sucks.

If you would have signed top free agents like Adrian Beltre and Max Scherzer and other top free agents that he didn't sign, yes this team would be a consistent playoff team. Or since he doesn't want to spend the money on them, he should have tanked.

I'm a broken record when I state the team should have blown up in 2016. Instead, Arte is in this mediocrity hell. He won't spend big to get all the best players to surround Trout with and he won't tank to get the best draft picks to surround Trout with. So the Angels are stuck in this in-between place and it's not fun.

The Astros tanked and look at them now. The Angels would be in a better place if they would have tanked in 2016 or hell, traded away bits and pieces like Cam and Calhoun etc. Arte is delusional if he thinks his Angels could actually compete for a World Series every single year he's had Trout.

Arte’s biggest mistake was hiring a very raw GM in Dipoto after Tony Reagins. He should’ve hired an experienced baseball guy as a president of baseball operations and let that guy hire a GM and manager. Arte should’ve kept his and Carpino’s paws off of personnel decisions. They screwed up big time. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Calzone 2

[beatlesrule]

Look back at the last 18 years. When the Cardinals had Pujols, he was the best player in the game and they got to the World Series three times and won it twice. The Red Sox have won the World Series four times in the last 18 years. The Giants have won it three times. I don't need to tell you all this stuff. You already know it.

As far as this season goes, they could have signed Donaldson for one. They didn't get any of the best free agents available. From what I've read, they weren't even in the running for most of them. Arte didn't do the absolute best he could this offseason. He extended Trout so I guess that's all most people care about. 

I am embracing the tank though. I want the angels to get the absolute best draft pick they can and like I have stated many times already, I hope in 2020, Moreno finally realizes that he has a couple of special players and actually decides to try to win a world championship. 

In my opinion, his no tanking philosophy is very flawed and I know it's being negative but look at the results of his no tanking stubbornness. Again though, Trout decided to stick with the angels so maybe winning a World Series is not as important as he leads on since Arte Moreno does not have one as an owner.

[beatlesrule]

14 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

Ok and now that Beltre is gone that one doesn’t matter anymore.  We would need to sign a 3rd baseman.  What if instead of Max we went all in on David Price and he regressed like he has, or Chris Sale and he is now on the shelf, or Darvish any of the long list of best starters available.  Also if we signed those we would still need to fix all the other holes.  Oh and remember when they singed Albert because he was the best available?  

I've already stated many times that I wanted Prince Fielder. That's a pretty poor argument too because Pujols was "32" at the time and declining and Fielder was 27 in his prime.

Also, he didn't really know what he had in Mike Trout. After Trouts historic rookie season, he's not done all he can to surround the best player in baseball with the absolute best team available. Again though, he did say we're doing the best we can so again, his definition of best sucks.

Even if Pujols was the best player available, it's a one and done for him because he made a poor investment? That's pretty pathetic when you have some special players like Trout and Ohtani and Simmons on your team.

Oh and I don't understand your argument about Chris Sale. The Red Sox won a World Series with him and Price. Also, my point was the team would have been better with Beltre.

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

 "We're doing the best we can."

Arte Moreno

His definition of best sucks.

If you would have signed top free agents like Adrian Beltre and Max Scherzer and other top free agents that he didn't sign, yes this team would be a consistent playoff team. Or since he doesn't want to spend the money on them, he should have tanked.

I'm a broken record when I state the team should have blown up in 2016. Instead, Arte is in this mediocrity hell. He won't spend big to get all the best players to surround Trout with and he won't tank to get the best draft picks to surround Trout with. So the Angels are stuck in this in-between place and it's not fun.

The Astros tanked and look at them now. The Angels would be in a better place if they would have tanked in 2016 or hell, traded away bits and pieces like Cam and Calhoun etc. Arte is delusional if he thinks his Angels could actually compete for a World Series every single year he's had Trout.

you're still mad about how the team made mistake 4, 5, 6 years ago?  that sucks.  

should they have done a bunch of stuff differently?  well yeah.  so I guess the ramp to improvement has a little less loft than you'd have liked.  But I guess that's true for everyone here to be honest.  

 

 

[Docwaukee]

11 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I've already stated many times that I wanted Prince Fielder. That's a pretty poor argument too because Pujols was "32" at the time and declining and Fielder was 27 in his prime.

Also, he didn't really know what he had in Mike Trout. After Trouts historic rookie season, he's not done all he can to surround the best player in baseball with the absolute best team available. Again though, he did see say we're doing the best we can so again, his definition of best sucks.

Even if Pujols was the best player available, it's a one and done for him because he made a poor investment? That's pretty pathetic when you have some special players like Trout and Ohtani and Simmons on your team.

Oh and I don't understand your argument about Chris Sale. The Red Sox won a World Series with him and Price. Also, my point was the team would have been better with Beltre.

you do realize that Dipoto and Arte brought in Albert, Wilson, Hamilton and others and the reason we are where we are now was because Dipoto gutted the farm system and put every last drop of the orgs resources into the major league club?  

Since then, there was no amount of free agent money that was going to make this team a contender without any semblance of a farm system to contribute.  Maybe tanking after 2016 hastens the progress.  Maybe that also makes Trout want to leave.  And just because you tank doesn't guarantee jack.  And spending more doesn't guarantee jack.  

It's easy to recognize what's gone wrong but it's kind of absurd to think that doing it the way you wanted them to would have worked any better.  

[beatlesrule]

Spending more means you get better players. Those signings were flat-out wrong. I don't remember Wilson being that bad of a signing though. Most of us wanted Hunter back over Hamilton and or Greinke. 

You can definitely argue that tanking after 2016 wouldn't guarantee better draft picks but it would give them higher draft picks which usually gives you better draft picks. Yeah, maybe Eppler messes all those draft picks up but you can spin it positive or negative. I'm going by mathematics and Mathematics dictate the higher the pick, the better the player. 

You really think Trout would leave when the Angels have a better-looking future than they do now which likely would have been the case if they would have tanked in 2016 because of better draft picks that would be close to or contributing right now? Plus, they still had the 2016, 2017 and 2018 offseason to sign better players than they did. I'm not suggesting they should have tanked every single season up until now just sold most players from that 2016 team at the deadline.

Whatever. I'm at the mercy of Artes' plaything which happens to be my favorite team. I have to just hope that sometime soon the Angels win the World Series despite the owner not doing all he can for that to actually happen.

 

[Claude]

It’s kinda crazy that people believe we only need pitching and our offense is set for next season. Tonight we’re only missing La Stella and we’ve generated one hit through five. Our offense is very streaky and unreliable.

[Stradling]

But The Angels spent more money on Hamilton than they would have for Hunter and yet it was a worse player, that’s weird.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

12 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I'm not suggesting they should have tanked every single season up until now just sold most players from that 2016 team at the deadline.

Like who?

There was a reason the 2016 team had the record it did. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Like who?

There was a reason the 2016 team had the record it did. 

He’s going to say Cam, Simmons and Kole.

[Stradling]

Maybe even Shoe.  

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, Baghdad Strad said:

You have to go all the way back to December of 2017 as the last time the Angels signed the best available free agent.  You have to go all the way back to March of 2019 since the Angels signed the best player in baseball to an extension.  So in the last two off seasons they have signed the best free agent and the best player to an extension.  That isn’t good enough for some which is their right as a fan.

Honk your horn three times and scream out the window and say “I’m a halo honk for life” ! That might get you a couple of free tickets to sit with the other halo honks. 

Good job Bagdad

[Claude]

3 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

But The Angels spent more money on Hamilton than they would have for Hunter and yet it was a worse player, that’s weird.  

Again Arte ceasing control to a real baseball guy would’ve prevented a lot of that crap.

[Stradling]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

Honk your horn three times and scream out the window and say “I’m a halo honk for life” ! That might get you a couple of free tickets to sit with the other halo honks. 

Good job Bagdad

If there was one person on this entire board that would listen to Lodge it would be you.  

[Troll Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Baghdad Strad said:

If there was one person on this entire board that would listen to Lodge it would be you.  

I can assure you that Loge knows more about  ️ and the Angels than you will ever admit too.

Now post a pic of you halo honk hat  

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Baghdad Strad said:

But The Angels spent more money on Hamilton than they would have for Hunter and yet it was a worse player, that’s weird.  

it was poor decision making more than a willingness to spend or a lack of high draft picks.  

I would also like to point out that Eppler acquired a 4-5 WAR player with 5 years of control for a failed prospect, another prospect that's currently an ok reliever and a SS with 1yr of control.  That added a ton of value to this org.   Who could we have sold off prior to the 2016 season?  Calhoun maybe.  Would we have been better off keeping Newcomb?   Heaney and Skaggs were both super young with tons of control.  Weaver was pretty much done and owed a decent chunk of change.  Street?  good luck.  Richards maybe?  He still had 3 years of control as well.  

Were we gonna do any better in the 2017 draft than Adell and Canning?  

the retrospectoscope is in full focus tonight.  

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I can assure you that Loge knows more about  ️ and the Angels than you will ever admit too.

 

he should make his show about that.  

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

he should make his show about that.  

You listen to his show 

[Claude]

47 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you do realize that Dipoto and Arte brought in Albert, Wilson, Hamilton and others and the reason we are where we are now was because Dipoto gutted the farm system and put every last drop of the orgs resources into the major league club?    

Wasn't that considered the "win now" plan that the fans wanted? 

[Docwaukee]

19 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You listen to his show 

no.  I was joking.  

[beatlesrule]

54 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Like who?

There was a reason the 2016 team had the record it did. 

I've gone over it many times here. Cam, Calhoun, Shoemaker, Escobar, Johnny G, Joe Smith, Mike Morin, Santiago. All of those players had value and only Morin had a negative WAR. The Angels could have gotten a decent amount of prospects for those players.

None of this matters though because it's in the past and Arte refuses to do any kind of sell/tank mode and this is where it's gotten him. His method of putting together a championship ball club or even the illusion of contending simply doesn't work since 2010. Hell, Stoneman called up about Rafael palmeiro and his agent told him that Vlad was still available. 

The whole Los Angeles Angels thing was supposed to generate more Revenue that would put a winning product on the field. It has been downright pathetic the way Arte has ran things especially with the payroll being as large as it has been. I better stop being realistic which is being negative and pessimistic towards the situation and be optimistic and live with my head in the clouds instead since that gets less backlash.

[Docwaukee]

9 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I've gone over it many times here. Cam, Calhoun, Shoemaker, Escobar, Johnny G, Joe Smith, Mike Morin, Santiago. All of those players had value and only Morin had a negative WAR. The Angels could have gotten a decent amount of prospects for those players.

None of this matters though because it's in the past and Arte refuses to do any kind of sell/tank mode and this is where it's gotten him. His method of putting together a championship ball club or even the illusion of contending simply doesn't work since 2010. Hell, Stoneman called up about Rafael palmeiro and his agent told him that Vlad was still available. 

The whole Los Angeles Angels thing was supposed to generate more Revenue that would put a winning product on the field. It has been downright pathetic the way Arte has ran things especially with the payroll being as large as it has been. I better stop being realistic which is being negative and pessimistic towards the situation and be optimistic and live with my head in the clouds instead since that gets less backlash.

what backlash?  what's with the martyrdom?  you mean that people are disagreeing with your take?  seems like a pretty reasonable discussion

[Stradling]

They traded Smith and Santiago. The return wasn’t great.