Another bad year on the farm

[Hufflepuff]

Any thoughts as to why our farm teams are consistently in the bottom half of their respective league standings? Should we be more aggressive with international signings? 

[Slegnaac]

The Bees haven't won a title since 2013, something isn't working.

[TroutField]

Is that you, Dipoto?

 

The farm is looking good... check out the minor league thread. Minor League  Team records don’t matter much.. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

Fire somebody

[red321]

oh noes....the minor league team doesn't win championships...

 

wtf...the goal of the minor leagues is to produce talent for the major league team...period. AAA team is built to have guys who can fill in at the major league level and put the final polish on a younger prospect. AA team is to start to weed out the might be from the never will be and it goes on down the line. 

[Taylor]

I won't be happy until the Angels have a year where they win the WS and every minor league team wins their respective championships.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Hufflepuff said:

Any thoughts as to why our farm teams are consistently in the bottom half of their respective league standings? Should we be more aggressive with international signings? 

As others have already said... W/L records are not what minor league systems are for unless you are one of those people that believes a part of development is learning how to win..    I know that's something that's thrown out there a lot when a young team falls short, and there is no denying that experience is a huge factor, the reality is it's just experience and reps.    

As far as reasons why?   There are likely a ton..

 -- They are still trying to build minor league depth -- they didn't have the organizational players in place most teams with healthy farm systems have.  It's those older types that often do a lot of the heavy lifting.
 -- They have been aggressive promoting their prospects
 -- The churn at the very top has caused a chain reaction through the entire system
 -- They have been pretty aggressively doing complete tear downs of pitching and hitting mechanics when guys first come into the system.

If someone needed ONE solitary reason why the Angels farm system in 2019 doesnt have a winning record then I'd say it's because of this...  http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2015?list=ana

Take a look at that top 10...

Even better -- take a look at the minor league rosters and performances for our entire farm system in 2015

Rookie Ball (AZL) https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=da5e5c61
Rookie Ball Orem https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=e71c6646
Low A Burlington https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=7f93f95f
High A  -- Empire https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=1e9dc26e
AA - Arkansas https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=dbce1a47
AAA - Salt Lake - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=0303790e

When people here talk about the job Eppler has done to try to rebuild this team -- they really don't seem to understand how much work needed to be done from the bottom up.   But look at those rosters, and ask yourselves if you have ever seen an uglier more barren system top to bottom than that one.

The Angels had a system wide problem, not a bad MLB team problem...

Edited August 9, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

It's hard to see what is going on when you don't have an inside track as to how the Angels are changing the structure of their minor league system from the analytics to the on field instruction. We see the games in boxscores, for the most part and some on MiLB but that is just a camera eye view of the game and has nothing to do with what has gone on from 4 hours previous and hours after. 

Jo Adell is going to be promoted to the majors and yet he has been on unseucessful teams. His progression is not judged by the win/loss record of the teams he played on but by the advancement in his skill set, independent of team success. He is a standout player but is also the product of the system put in place to move him to higher levels of competition regardless of age or time spent at any given level. This is different from the previous minor league operation where it was a station to station advancement by years not talent. 

[IIIII]

I would like to see a historical comparison between farm system rankings and minor league records. Maybe there is a correlation between the two or maybe not. If so it makes sense that our minor league teams suck the last 5 years because so does our farm system.

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 hours ago, Taylor said:

I won't be happy until the Angels have a year where they win the WS and every minor league team wins their respective championships.

Imagine parking prices the year after that...

[Angel Oracle]

That's what happens when ignoring int'l signings for years, and relaying on high floor heavy drafts through 2015.   Heck, they acted like Taylor Ward was Johnny Bench Jr. 

[Second Base]

Angels farm system produces more talent in the last two years than in the previous 5 years combined and they apparently aren't good enough?

Rengifo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Walsh, Ward, Ohtani (technically), Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, Buttrey, Pena...

Sometimes I think that just because someone isn't a star right away, folks assume they're a bust. When in reality, we have produced our starting 2B, 3B, DH and a couple utility players as well as a front of the rotation starter, mid rotation starter and back rotation starter, not to mention, quality depth in AAA. 

And if you project into the future, you'll see Adell in 2020, Marsh and Chris Rodriguez in 2021, Soriano, Yan, Wilson, Adams and Maitan in 2022, Kochanowicz and Paris in 2023....

Ten years from now, we'll be talking about 2018-2023 as the 5 year period when the Angels farm system churned more talent than any era since the late 90's and early 2000's. Then someone will stay what about Trout, Calhoun, Richards, Skaggs and Heaney and then we will have 7 pages of arguments and two bans.

[Claude]

I like their farm. It’s come along way. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Angels farm system produces more talent in the last two years than in the previous 5 years combined and they apparently aren't good enough?

Rengifo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Walsh, Ward, Ohtani (technically), Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, Buttrey, Pena...

Sometimes I think that just because someone isn't a star right away, folks assume they're a bust. When in reality, we have produced our starting 2B, 3B, DH and a couple utility players as well as a front of the rotation starter, mid rotation starter and back rotation starter, not to mention, quality depth in AAA. 

And if you project into the future, you'll see Adell in 2020, Marsh and Chris Rodriguez in 2021, Soriano, Yan, Wilson, Adams and Maitan in 2022, Kochanowicz and Paris in 2023....

Ten years from now, we'll be talking about 2018-2023 as the 5 year period when the Angels farm system churned more talent than any era since the late 90's and early 2000's. Then someone will stay what about Trout, Calhoun, Richards, Skaggs and Heaney and then we will have 7 pages of arguments and two bans.

Shhh. No facts. Only emotions.

[PattyD22]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Angels farm system produces more talent in the last two years than in the previous 5 years combined and they apparently aren't good enough?

Rengifo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Walsh, Ward, Ohtani (technically), Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, Buttrey, Pena...

Sometimes I think that just because someone isn't a star right away, folks assume they're a bust. When in reality, we have produced our starting 2B, 3B, DH and a couple utility players as well as a front of the rotation starter, mid rotation starter and back rotation starter, not to mention, quality depth in AAA. 

And if you project into the future, you'll see Adell in 2020, Marsh and Chris Rodriguez in 2021, Soriano, Yan, Wilson, Adams and Maitan in 2022, Kochanowicz and Paris in 2023....

Ten years from now, we'll be talking about 2018-2023 as the 5 year period when the Angels farm system churned more talent than any era since the late 90's and early 2000's. Then someone will stay what about Trout, Calhoun, Richards, Skaggs and Heaney and then we will have 7 pages of arguments and two bans.

From your lips (well fingertips) to Gods ears Second Base.  Let’s hope this comes to fruition.  I’m not getting any younger.

[mmc]

It's weird seeing people undermine the importance of having good farm teams.  I'm not saying all of them should or need to contending every single year, but it's good for the organization to have winning teams at every level.  Not to mention the experience of winning and playing in meaningful games is very beneficial to the development of the prospects.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, IIIII said:

I would like to see a historical comparison between farm system rankings and minor league records. Maybe there is a correlation between the two or maybe not. If so it makes sense that our minor league teams suck the last 5 years because so does our farm system.

If you want a look at the Angels history since 2000 when they hired Stoneman...  Here goes..

Stoneman arrives.

Entering 2000, the Angels had 1 prospect ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 303-410, a .425 Win%  (The one prospect was Ramon Ortiz)
Entering 2001, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 343-345, a .499 Win%
Entering 2002, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 328-367, a .472 Win%
Entering 2003, the Angels had 5 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 353-340, a .509 Win%  (rookie ball Provo was 32 games above .500, a .711 Win%)
Entering 2004, the Angels had 6 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 314-379, a .454 Win%
Entering 2005, the Angels had 6 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100 and the number 1 farm system in MLB -- they combined to go 340-355  a 489 Win%
Entering 2006, the Angels had 7 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 386-373, a .509 Win% (The DSL team was 27 games above .500, a 701 Win%)
Entering 2007, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 405-359, a .530 Win% (The DSL team was 28 games over .500)
Entering 2008, the Angels had 4 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 423-342, a .553 Win%

Nine years into Bill Stoneman's drafts -- the Angels MLB team and farm system was filled with homegrown players and organizational types.  

Bill Stoneman steps aside

Entering 2009, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 389-368 a .514 Win%  Clay Daniels fiasco happens  -- Angels pull out of Latin America in shame.
Entering 2010, the Angels had 3 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 388-369, a .513 Win%  Bane fired.
Entering 2011, the Angels had 3 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 386-376, a .507 Win%  (The DSL team was 34 games over .500)

Tony Reagins goes bye bye

Jerry Dipoto hired --  What was left of the Stoneman scouting department gets fired. 
JD trades away T100 player Tyler Chatwood before the season starts

Entering 2012, the Angels had 3 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 352-407, a .464 Win%.  T-100, Segura traded away.
Entering 2013, the Angels had 1 prospect ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 381-378, a .502 Win%.  (The one prospect was Kaleb Cowart)
Entering 2014, the Angels had 1 prospect ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combines to go 368-395, a .482 Win%.  (The one prospect was Taylor Lindsey)
Entering 2015, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combines to go .344-419, a 451 Win%

Jerry Dipoto quits

Eppler hired -- trades away T-100 Sean Newcomb

Entering 2016, the Angels had 1 prospect ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combines to go 352-412, a 461 Win% (The one prospect is Jam Jones)
Entering 2017, the Angels had nobody ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 375-386, a .492 Win% (SLC goes 72-70 with a roster made entirely of organizational filler average age 28)
Entering 2018, the Angels had 3 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system combined to go 313-438, a 417 Win% (Ohtani one of the 3 prospects)
Entering 2019, the Angels had 2 prospects ranked in the BBA top 100.  The system has gone a combined 239-362. s .399 Win%

So, for those wondering. 

In the 9 years Bill Stoneman oversaw the team the Angels had 35 players (16 individuals), rank in BBA's top 100. 
In the 11 years since he left a total of 8 non Stoneman connected individuals have made a top 100.  Eight!  .... Cowart, Lindsey, Newcomb, Heaney, Jones, Adell, Canning, and Ohtani.  

Basically this team's farm system turned into a dumpster fire starting in 2011 when Bane got fired and then the bottom fell out completely in 2012 when JD came in and fired almost everyone with ties to the Stoneman era.
 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[tdawg87]

Basically, Dipoto is a shitheel.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

8 hours ago, Hufflepuff said:

Any thoughts as to why our farm teams are consistently in the bottom half of their respective league standings? Should we be more aggressive with international signings? 

Climate change, plus Trump's tariff war with China are reeking havoc on the farmers...   

[IIIII]

Wow great work thanks for the super detailed response!

[GrittyVeterans]

The development system is something that I’m concerned about. Teams like the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees just churn out polished players

[Lou]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

That's what happens when ignoring int'l signings for years, and relaying on high floor heavy drafts through 2015.   Heck, they acted like Taylor Ward was Johnny Bench Jr. 

Whoa, where are the exclamation points? 

[Docwaukee]

there is no correlation between a farm system's wining percentage and their quality.  

 

[tdawg87]

8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

there is no correlation between a farm system's wining percentage and their quality.  

 

Well said.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Well said.

AW has a very good wining percentage.