In Defense of Eppler

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Angel Oracle said:

He HAS to NO longer look for one year stop gap starting pitching.   He just HAS to stop that.   It's been an abysmal failure, although really the only true one.   

why?  It just needs to work better.  Playoff teams do that sort of thing all the time with 1-2 year stop gaps or supplements.  It's part of the foundation of free agency and trades.  

Where you get into trouble is making long term commitment to shitty players.  

 

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

why?  It just needs to work better.  Playoff teams do that sort of thing all the time with 1-2 year stop gaps or supplements.  It's part of the foundation of free agency and trades.  

Where you get into trouble is making long term commitment to shitty players.  

 

Totally agree with the last statement.  

The next question is why has Billy failed so miserably with the 1-2 year stop gap starting pitching deals since arriving here?

Is there a disconnect between him and the MLB advance scouts in spotting the right ones to bring in?   Are the right ones not wanting to come here so far?

Has it just been rotten luck?   

[mmc]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

why?  It just needs to work better.  Playoff teams do that sort of thing all the time with 1-2 year stop gaps or supplements.  It's part of the foundation of free agency and trades.  

Where you get into trouble is making long term commitment to shitty players.  

 

Playoff teams already have their #1-2 starters in place, so they can get away with doing this to find cheap players to fill out the rotation since the top 2 guys are likely earning, or will be earning all the money.  The Angels are not in a position to get away with doing this.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I just want to interrupt and point out that the Angels are 56-57.

They are not 46-67.

[Claude]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

It's as if some of you don't follow the team at all. 

Most fans follow the standings and could care less about how they got there. But the Espinosa’s, Cahill’s, Harvey’s are part of the problem. The other part is overpaid non-producing players. Arte has always spent money so it’s been an ongoing issue that Eppler has to dig out of. It won’t be easy. 

[NrM]

I've defended Eppler this year and believe in his vision. Didn't realize going against the argument that Injuries are the main reason for our struggles would ruffle so many feathers. There are countless issues with this organization from top to bottom which has been discussed to death, and injuries are at the bottom of the list.

I guess Injuries are an easy scapegoat for the superfans here because they don't have to blame anyone.

what a joke.

to all the people downvotting me, calling me retarded and the lowbrow attacks . This board used to be a place for discussion with varying opinions. I guess it's turned into an echo chamber now.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I just want to interrupt and point out that the Angels are 56-57.

They are not 46-67.

And with pretty much everything else, besides starting pitching, in place for yearly post-season contention, some on here seem to forget that.   They are acting as if Eppler is an abject failure, instead of a guy who has truly only failed so far in one area (1-2 year starting pitching acquisitions). 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Also if Arte blew through his budget this past off season who would be here?  Harper? Machado?  Grandall?  They made offers on all the arms.  You don’t just say to Corbin, here’s $25 million more to play on the opposite side of the country than you want to be on.  

Yep, would much rather add Cole plus a second solid starter, then to bring in the two $300+ million men who may end up being big disappointments. 

Everything is set up just right for the Halos to do whatever it takes to sign Cole and get a solid 2nd starter in here this off-season.

[Claude]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I just want to interrupt and point out that the Angels are 56-57.

They are not 46-67.

375-386 since the Royals handed us our lunch. So it’s been a you win some, you lose some five year ride. That’s with a mostly $165M payroll. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And with pretty much everything else, besides starting pitching, in place for yearly post-season contention, some on here seem to forget that.   They are acting as if Eppler is an abject failure, instead of a guy who has truly only failed so far in one area (1-2 year starting pitching acquisitions). 

Also, what is the sample size on that?

Harvey. Cahill.

He’s really only signed 4 free agents to deals of more than $4M, if you add Allen and Cozart. 

Yeah, that’s an 0 for 4, but it’s only four guys. And the largest was still only $38M total. 

I bet we could come up with a list of 30 FAs on other teams who signed for more than $30M who stink. 

[mmc]

People talk about how bad Cahil and Harvey performed this year, but what enough people don’t talk about is the fact that Eppler way overestimated the market and made the pair the two highest paid starters on one year deals, and made Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal.  The Astros, for example, only gave Miley 4.5 (half of what Cahill made). It’s clear Eppler has absolutely no understanding of the pitching market, which should scare the hell out of people.

[Lou]

I'm not scared

[Angel Oracle]

9 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

People talk about how bad Cahil and Harvey performed this year, but what enough people don’t talk about is the fact that Eppler way overestimated the market and made the pair the two highest paid starters on one year deals, and made Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal.  The Astros, for example, only gave Miley 4.5 (half of what Cahill made). It’s clear Eppler has absolutely no understanding of the pitching market, which should scare the hell out of people.

The Harvey signing was a head scratcher, as he was mostly awful from 2016-2018 and they basically gave him $10 million for success over just several weeks late in 2018.  

Cahill though did have a solid 2018, granted over just 110 innings, and pitched mostly decent to solid ball going back to post 2015-ASG break.  How does someone suddenly stink it up so bad as a starter (giving up many HRs), and then become much better again recently as a reliever?

Miley was a risk still this past off-season, because he had only pitched in the second half of the 2018 season which followed two wretched seasons in Baltimore.    Now, Miley is much less of a risk because he has been pitching like this since July 2018.   He does now seemingly warrant at least a two year deal (about $12-14 million/season?). 

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

People talk about how bad Cahil and Harvey performed this year, but what enough people don’t talk about is the fact that Eppler way overestimated the market and made the pair the two highest paid starters on one year deals, and made Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal.  The Astros, for example, only gave Miley 4.5 (half of what Cahill made). It’s clear Eppler has absolutely no understanding of the pitching market, which should scare the hell out of people.

Just before the Angels signed Harvey, the Padres signed Richards for $15M on a two year deal but it was actually a one-year deal since he can’t pitch till 2020.

[Lou]

FACE!

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

People talk about how bad Cahil and Harvey performed this year, but what enough people don’t talk about is the fact that Eppler way overestimated the market and made the pair the two highest paid starters on one year deals, and made Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal.  The Astros, for example, only gave Miley 4.5 (half of what Cahill made). It’s clear Eppler has absolutely no understanding of the pitching market, which should scare the hell out of people.

you state that like it's a fact.  It's an extremely arguable point and even if he did, it was probably to the tune of about 5-6 mil total between Harvey, Cahill, and Allen.  An immaterial amount of money as it relates to the discussion.  You also don't know what other offers those guys had on the table or the dynamic of how they were being pursued.  I don't either, but I'm not making any assumptions.  Then you pick the one player among several others that has worked out well while ignoring an entire slew of those that haven't.  If he has no clue about pitching then neither do the reigning WS champs, the current AL east division leader, the current AL west leader who have been to the WS two years in a row, and a whole slew of other teams who failed in last year's free agent pitching market.  

[Claude]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Just before the Angels signed Harvey, the Padres signed Richards for $15M on a two year deal but it was actually a one-year deal since he can’t pitch till 2020.

They were all bad signings. One doesn’t excuse the other. It’s all part of staying within budget restraints. If Eppler was only given two dollars and a quarter to spend then it’s not really all on him. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Calzone 2

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Just before the Angels signed Harvey, the Padres signed Richards for $15M on a two year deal but it was actually a one-year deal since he can’t pitch till 2020.

And he has much more upside than Cahill who was not consistently a starter for the 4 seasons before last, and Matt Harvey who has been done for years and is a proven clubhouse problem.  The Padres are also not desperate for starting pitching help, and only brought in Richards to have a vet in the rotation to help out the kids.  Richards is also expected to be back before the completion of the season.  Laughable that you think the contracts are remotely comparable.

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

They were all bad signings. One doesn’t excuse the other. It’s all part of staying within budget restraints. If Eppler was only given two dollars and a quarter to spend then it’s not really all on him. 

so we're back to the 'Arte needs to spend more' narrative?  

this is gonna be perfect for when Arte allows for a huge contract to Cole and another for a mid rotation starter expanding payroll above 190m and somewhere in the top 5.  

then you'll have to do your apology dance again and you an go back to bitching about Albert.  

[Lou]

Richards will be 32 next year just having had surgery and coming off of a 4-year stretch where he made a total of 28 starts. 

Upside? 

Do you honestly think he's worth $15 million for one year?

[yamsi12]

It’s playoffs or bust in 2020 for Billy.

[Chuck]

21 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

People talk about how bad Cahil and Harvey performed this year, but what enough people don’t talk about is the fact that Eppler way overestimated the market and made the pair the two highest paid starters on one year deals, and made Allen the highest paid reliever on a one year deal.  The Astros, for example, only gave Miley 4.5 (half of what Cahill made). It’s clear Eppler has absolutely no understanding of the pitching market, which should scare the hell out of people.

Yeah I agree. 

Eppler has made some really good trades and nice low cost pickups, plus helped in signing both Trout and Ohtani, which was HUGE.

That said, he's awful at evaluating FA talent and pulling the trigger on signing these guys.

One of his most sought after FA's this offseason was Nate Eovaldi who decided to sign with Boston. It's actually a good thing he did because like Harvey, Allen and Cahill, he has sucked when he's been healthy this season. Plus Eovaldi was going to get a multiyear deal from us, like Boston.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

Richards will be 32 next year just having had surgery and coming off of a 4-year stretch where he made a total of 28 starts. 

Upside? 

Do you honestly think he's worth $15 million for one year?

granted it didn't work out, but the Angels move off of Richards because they thought he was gonna be overpaid.  

In retrospect though, I think I'd rather have Richards at 8.5m for 2020 than to have paid what they did for Harvey and Cahill.  That said, the Angels needed someone that could potentially contribute for 2019 and that was the real deal breaker.  

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

so we're back to the 'Arte needs to spend more' narrative?  

this is gonna be perfect for when Arte allows for a huge contract to Cole and another for a mid rotation starter expanding payroll above 190m and somewhere in the top 5.  

then you'll have to do your apology dance again and you an go back to bitching about Albert.  

It’s not my problem, it’s not your problem, it’s Eppler’s problem. You can write up all of those nice 5 paragraph solutions that you want but they’re not taking your advice or mine. Arte is most likely going to stick to his budget so we have to live with the discount players.

[mmc]

9 minutes ago, Lou said:

Richards will be 32 next year just having had surgery and coming off of a 4-year stretch where he made a total of 28 starts. 

Upside? 

Do you honestly think he's worth $15 million for one year?

It's cute seeing people like you using "well someone else did it too!" as an excuse for Eppler.  To answer your question, if he comes back strong (he will come back in a month or so which, along with ST, should give him time to shake off the dust of being injured) and helps the Padres push for (and possibly make) the playoffs, while being the vet to help the prospects adjust to the majors (and giving them depth so they aren't forced to throw them to the majors prematurely), then yes, I would say it's worth it.