Rays-Red Sox game protest

[happybat4]

Anybody catch what happened? I briefly read about it and it seems the rays reliever got a batter out, the rays put him at first base while another pitched, then they brought the pitcher (who was at first) back to pitch. The Ref Sox we're protesting where the pitcher was placed in the batting order since they gave up the DH spot. Maybe someone can explain it to me better. I doubt they win appeal even if a mistake was made by the umpires, but it was interesting.

[eligrba]

I would guess that this is not a problem as long as the DH does not take a position on the field.  Regarding the substitution, I am guessing the second pitcher entered the game for the 1B who left the game.  The fact that two pitchers are on the field should not be a problem.  If this is a problem, the Angels may need to rethink their efforts with Cowart and Walsh.

I don't see why MLB would have a problem with this, except for the Red Sox loss.

[eaterfan]

21 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

Anybody catch what happened? I briefly read about it and it seems the rays reliever got a batter out, the rays put him at first base while another pitched, then they brought the pitcher (who was at first) back to pitch. The Ref Sox we're protesting where the pitcher was placed in the batting order since they gave up the DH spot. Maybe someone can explain it to me better. I doubt they win appeal even if a mistake was made by the umpires, but it was interesting.

Someone on Twitter - maybe Buster Olney - said the issue was that it was not explicitly stated to the umpire where the substitute would be batting in the lineup. If this is the case there is apparently a rule that it is up to the umpire to decide. I don't know what any of that means.

[happybat4]

56 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I would guess that this is not a problem as long as the DH does not take a position on the field.  Regarding the substitution, I am guessing the second pitcher entered the game for the 1B who left the game.  The fact that two pitchers are on the field should not be a problem.  If this is a problem, the Angels may need to rethink their efforts with Cowart and Walsh.

I don't see why MLB would have a problem with this, except for the Red Sox loss.

If a pitcher pitches than takes the field you lose the DH spot. That's not what the argument was, the argument had to do with where in the batting order the pitcher who pitched and then played first base was supposed to bat in the order.

[happybat4]

Here is an article about what happened.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/rays-lineup-trickery-leads-to-15-minute-delay-and-red-sox-protest-200329789.html

 

[m0nkey]

Angel Hernandez was one of the umpires

[happybat4]

8 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Angel Hernandez was one of the umpires

Yeah that says enough lol. I'm still curious what the rule is as far as batting order. If you move the pitcher to first does he have to take the first basements spot in the order and then the new pitcher takes the DH spot? Or is it essentially like a double switch and the manager gets to choose. From from I understand is that Cash never specified where they should bat in the order and by rule the umpires places them, Cora didn't agree with the placement. Maybe this will come up with Jared Walsh at some point.

[zenmaster]

I loved this headline lol

https://deadspin.com/rays-put-pitcher-at-first-base-nearly-destroy-the-tend-1836672460

[Jeff Fletcher]

I actually had a conversation with Ausmus about this in Toronto. Angels got in a jam and used Buttrey with a 5-run lead to finish the 8th. I suggested Noé Ramírez, who came out for Buttrey, should have gone to 3B so he could then go back and pitch the 9th instead of burning a third pitcher. 

Anyway, when the 1st pitcher goes into the field, he goes into the batting order and you lose the DH. But two players are being added to the order: the first pitcher and the new pitcher. One goes into the DH spot and one goes into the spot of the fielder who comes off the field. The manager has to say who is batting where.

It seems like Cash never told the ump where the hitters were going. 

[Blarg]

Boston lost, right?

Then it's all good.

[happybat4]

3 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I actually had a conversation with Ausmus about this in Toronto. Angels got in a jam and used Buttrey with a 5-run lead to finish the 8th. I suggested Noé Ramírez, who came out for Buttrey, should have gone to 3B so he could then go back and pitch the 9th instead of burning a third pitcher. 

Anyway, when the 1st pitcher goes into the field, he goes into the batting order and you lose the DH. But two players are being added to the order: the first pitcher and the new pitcher. One goes into the DH spot and one goes into the spot of the fielder who comes off the field. The manager has to say who is batting where.

It seems like Cash never told the ump where the hitters were going. 

So if Cash never told them what should have happened? I imagine the Rays didn't want to have their pitcher batting the next inning and the red Sox thought he should have based on something.

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Either way, both pitchers would hit in those specific spots; it's just a matter of which pitcher goes to which spot. So the Red Sox wasted 15 minutes over the difference in hitting prowess between two non-Ohtani pitchers.

But one of those pitchers was never really going to be in the lineup. 

[Taylor]

In summary, the Rays did nothing wrong and the Red Sox are being whiny bitches again.

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Randy Gradishar said:

Either way, both pitchers would hit in those specific spots; it's just a matter of which pitcher goes to which spot. So the Red Sox wasted 15 minutes over the difference in hitting prowess between two non-Ohtani pitchers.

Well, that depends. 

If they switched the original pitcher back before the end of the inning, they would have only one pitcher in the lineup and another position player. 

[Slegnaac]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Well, that depends. 

If they switched the original pitcher back before the end of the inning, they would have only one pitcher in the lineup and another position player. 

Would it have to be before the end of the inning?

2 outs, pitcher A goes to 1b, pitcher B comes into pitch and gets a strike out.

Both players are in the batting order now? Whichever one comes up next in the order could be removed for a PH?

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Slegnaac said:

Would it have to be before the end of the inning?

2 outs, pitcher A goes to 1b, pitcher B comes into pitch and gets a strike out.

Both players are in the batting order now? Whichever one comes up next in the order could be removed for a PH?

The manager has to say where they are hitting right when he makes the moves. Otherwise it’s up to the umpire. 

Say the DH is in the 3 spot and the 1B is in the 7 spot. The 7 spot is due up first in the next inning. Pitcher A gets moved to 1B with 2 outs in the inning and pitcher B enters. Pitcher B gets the last out of the inning  

If the team wants Pitcher A to come back and pitch the next inning, they have to put him in the 3 spot or else have him hit. 

[happybat4]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The manager has to say where they are hitting right when he makes the moves. Otherwise it’s up to the umpire. 

Say the DH is in the 3 spot and the 1B is in the 7 spot. The 7 spot is due up first in the next inning. Pitcher A gets moved to 1B with 2 outs in the inning and pitcher B enters. Pitcher B gets the last out of the inning  

If the team wants Pitcher A to come back and pitch the next inning, they have to put him in the 3 spot or else have him hit. 

But the rays moved the pitcher who played first first base back to pitch the last out of thr inning and put a regular position player back at first base. They did all this without ever saying where people were batting in the order.

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

But the rays moved the pitcher who played first first base back to pitch the last inning and put a regular position player back at first base. They did all this without ever saying where people were batting in the order.

That’s why the Red Sox protested

[Blarg]

Most important is they lost.

[happybat4]

I also never knew the rule says you can only do this once. A pitcher can pitch, move positions and pitch one more time, but he can't move positions and pitch again in the same inning. So if pitcher A gets an out and moves to first, pitcher B gives up a singles, Pitcher A comes back and gets and out and goes back to first, Pitcher A can't pitch again that inning. I have no idea if that's ever happened to anyone, but that's the rule.