Pitch Sequence or White?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Robles is having the best season of his career. 

Edge: White

 

Cam, Buttrey, Noe.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, #WeNasty said:

Yea I hate that philosophy.  So Cam pitches great all year, that’s because the coach gave him the tools to be successful.  He gives up a grand slam and it’s the coaches fault.  

Cam is a predictable pitcher 50% of the time.

 

1. FASTBALL

2. SLIDER

60% of the time his slider is a ball in the dirt.

As a hitter you can guess 50% of the time and once you see the slider coming you know that 60% of the time it's in the dirt.

Which means you are sitting dead red 100% of the time.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Cam is a predictable pitcher 50% of the time.

 

1. FASTBALL

2. SLIDER

60% of the time his slider is a ball in the dirt.

As a hitter you can guess 50% of the time and once you see the slider coming you know that 60% of the time it's in the dirt.

Which means you are sitting dead red 100% of the time.

Cool, he’s having a good year so everyone else is a moron and you’re brilliant.  I’m guessing it’s something else.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

8 hours ago, #WeNasty said:

Cool, he’s having a good year so everyone else is a moron and you’re brilliant.  I’m guessing it’s something else.  

His #'s are in line as last year.

His best season wa 2016

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

His #'s are in line as last year.

His best season wa 2016

2016 was definitely his best season -- his FB was still a plus pitch.

Still, his #s have in fact improved from last year.  His hits allowed are down from last year and even  lower (barely) than in 2016.  Meanwhile his K/9 is up almost 2.0/9 from last year.   Of greater interest maybe, his FB usage is at a career low while his slider is at a career high.   His slider's pitch value is sitting at 9.2, far and away the best of any offering in any season.   https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13360&position=P#pitchvalues

So at least superficially it seems Cam has bought into what Eppler claims is the teams new focus on going with your best pitch .vs relying on the FB.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

Looks like Cam could use a good show me third pitch. Not needing to use it as much for an out pitch but a setup to keep the hitters honest. 

[T.G.]

All I know is that $28.5 million (Harvey, Allen, Cahill) just doesn't buy you what it used to.

 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

2016 was definitely his best season -- his FB was still a plus pitch.

Still, his #s have in fact improved from last year.  His hits allowed are down from last year and even  lower (barely) than in 2016.  Meanwhile his K/9 is up almost 2.0/9 from last year.   Of greater interest maybe, his FB usage is at a career low while his slider is at a career high.   His slider's pitch value is sitting at 9.2, far and away the best of any offering in any season.   https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=13360&position=P#pitchvalues

So at least superficially it seems Cam has bought into what Eppler claims is the teams new focus on going with your best pitch .vs relying on the FB.

What is his ball vs strike % with his Slider IP?

Also, we have an entire 2nd half to play. I believe he will finish the same as last year. He would have to basically drop a goose egg for the entire 2nd half to finish the year like in 2016.

 

[Inside Pitch]

28 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Also, we have an entire 2nd half to play. I believe he will finish the same as last year. He would have to basically drop a goose egg for the entire 2nd half to finish the year like in 2016.

Nobody is predicting he's going to match his 2016, so not sure why you're going there.   You said his numbers were the same, now you're saying you expect him to finish at about the same -- that's fine.   but to date, he's actually pitched better than last year and the numbers (which you brought up), bear that out.

Nothing much to argue about here.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

22 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Nobody is predicting he's going to match his 2016, so not sure why you're going there.   You said his numbers were the same, now you're saying you expect him to finish at about the same -- that's fine.   but to date, he's actually pitched better than last year and the numbers (which you brought up), bear that out.

Nothing much to argue about here.

Not arguing. I'm simply stating at his current stats he has more time to regress to last years figures. Which are more feasible than him shutting down the entire league in the 2nd half and either maintaining his current stats, going back to his 2016 stats, or decreasing his stats on this season. 

[eligrba]

On 7/21/2019 at 3:24 PM, Stradling said:

Cool, he’s having a good year so everyone else is a moron and you’re brilliant.  I’m guessing it’s something else.  

Cam has served up 2 grand slams for the Astros this season. He is having a good year statistically but he still seems to have trouble at crucial times. I think how Cam is used is more indicative of his performance this season than his stats. I have no confidence in Cam when inheriting runners on base.

[Docwaukee]

sequencing.  

it's just terrible.  whatever they've done this year in terms of analytics on the pitching side has been a disaster.  Yes, some of it is on the pitchers for not executing, but if I'm a pitcher on this team and I've watched multiple balls leave the yard when either I or others have hit their spot or come very close, then I am gonna be shaking things off quite a bit.  

Something isn't working and it's not ALL just the talent of this staff.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

sequencing.  

it's just terrible.  whatever they've done this year in terms of analytics on the pitching side has been a disaster.  Yes, some of it is on the pitchers for not executing, but if I'm a pitcher on this team and I've watched multiple balls leave the yard when either I or others have hit their spot or come very close, then I am gonna be shaking things off quite a bit.  

Something isn't working and it's not ALL just the talent of this staff.  

I don’t disagree, but he missed his spot tonight by a foot.  

[Docwaukee]

 

Just now, Stradling said:

I don’t disagree, but he missed his spot tonight by a foot.  

go back and watch it again.  he hit the spot where Stassi had his glove.  

[Stradling]

Just now, Dochalo said:

 

go back and watch it again.  he hit the spot where Stassi had his glove.  

No, he didn’t.  He was set up up and in, the ball was up and away.

[Chuck]

9 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

sequencing.  

it's just terrible.  whatever they've done this year in terms of analytics on the pitching side has been a disaster.  Yes, some of it is on the pitchers for not executing, but if I'm a pitcher on this team and I've watched multiple balls leave the yard when either I or others have hit their spot or come very close, then I am gonna be shaking things off quite a bit.  

Something isn't working and it's not ALL just the talent of this staff.  

All of the above re: the thread title. 

BTW, Stassi sucks big giant donkey balls. 

I'm starting to question Eppler's scouts or his own judgement on these guys he's picking up. 

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No, he didn’t.  He was set up up and in, the ball was up and away.

you're right.  I went back and looked again and Stassi set up inside.  

But here's my problem and one of the problem's I've had all year.  Know your pitcher.  Set up to where a miss doesn't end up in a hr.  We've seen it a ton this year where missing by a ball ends up in a ball over the fence.  

that last pitch by Cole was similar.  He missed a bit in and the ball was scorched.  

I know this might ruffle some feathers, but  I feel like we miss Scioscia in this regard.  Whether it was him calling pitches from the dugout or dictating an approach to hitters.  

[tdawg87]

I hope Stassi gets AIDS.

[Stradling]

Just now, Dochalo said:

you're right.  I went back and looked again and Stassi set up inside.  

But here's my problem and one of the problem's I've had all year.  Know your pitcher.  Set up to where a miss doesn't end up in a hr.  We've seen it a ton this year where missing by a ball ends up in a ball over the fence.  

that last pitch by Cole was similar.  He missed a bit in and the ball was scorched.  

I know this might ruffle some feathers, but  I fell like we miss Scioscia in this regard.  Whether it was him calling pitches from the dugout or dictating an approach to hitters.  

You know you aren’t going to get an argument from me about the value of Scioscia.  It’s shit pitching from guys that can’t make a mistake.  As for an expectation of Stassi knowing any of our pitchers, I am not sure that is very realistic in less than 2 weeks.  

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Stradling said:

You know you aren’t going to get an argument from me about the value of Scioscia.  It’s shit pitching from guys that can’t make a mistake.  As for an expectation of Stassi knowing any of our pitchers, I am not sure that is very realistic in less than 2 weeks.  

but everyone else in the dugout knows the pitchers and have seen them all year.  I just don't like that excuse.  And it's not just Stassi.  I'm not blaming him because he's given marching orders to call certain pitches in certain counts.  We've seen it all year regardless of who's behind the plate.  I just don't buy that everyone sans Robles has gotten worse from last year.  Maybe include Bedrosian in that mix but his FIP is the same which tells me he really hasn't gotten better.  

The one thing that may correlate is the ability to throw 100 mph.  Something that Doug White had in Verlander, Cole and Morton when he was in Houston and something we've seen from Robles.  But it has to be a located fastball which a guy like Garcia (who also throws 100 and explains they went after him) can't do consistently.  Maybe what I'm seeing is noise because of bias relative to the fact that the staff lack talent, but it just seems like several guys were better last year.  Or better somewhere else.  Or both.  

[Docwaukee]

and I like that pitch call for Garcia right there vs. Bell.  0-2 count and Stassi calls for a split that starts in the strike zone and ends up in the dirt. Probable worst case is that he spikes it.  Yes, he could have hung it in the zone, but we've seen Garcia miss with that pitch before and most of the time (almost all of the time), he misses out of the zone.  

just saw a sequence to Moran where Garcia spike a 3-2 splitter.  Again, a pitch that when he misses, he misses bad out of the zone and he spiked it for ball four.  How about 100 up in the zone right there?  

I am monday morning QBing the hell out of this right now relative to what little knowledge I have about pitch calling so call it a vent.  But it seems like they've made the wrong call more than I can ever remember happening in years past.  

[eligrba]

9 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I hope Stassi gets AIDS.

Stasis is AIDS for the Angels.

[Vladdy Issues]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:06 PM, Stradling said:

 

On 7/21/2019 at 2:05 PM, tdawg87 said:

Robles is having the best season of his career. 

Edge: White

 

Cam, buttrey, Noe.

Then why not have two pitching coaches like we have three hitting coaches?... have White be the bullpens pitching coach and have someone else be the starters (and yes I know there’s such a thing as a bullpen coach but isn’t his job totally different than a pitching coach?)

[totdprods]

It's funny how it seems like there's no in-between for anyone here on this board. Doug White either magically works or he doesn't. Max Stassi is supposed to be good the moment he puts on an Angels uniform or is a total failure. 

Y'all realize all of these folks are human beings, right? Not a video game? Not a computer simulation? Just because Doug White has an armful of data or ideas or processes doesn't mean it's going to be 100% effective from Day One. 
I'm sure White's picking Stassi's brain about what Houston has been up to as well. It's a process. All of this is. It takes time. Maybe it clicks one day, maybe it doesn't. These guys aren't going to learn a new skill or how to process new data and apply it right out of the gate. 

We should be encouraged the organization is trying things like this - something, anything - after a decade of basically doing absolutely nothing to evolve brought us to this point. 
And that's not a testament to analytics or advanced data either - fact is, the Angels org really didn't seemingly do much of anything to adapt after their '02-'09 run of success. It's obvious that timeframe was where they got stuck on their laurels and figured it would keep working, and it took them until Eppler's hire to realize that. That applies to analytics, scouting, coaching, roster development, minor league coaching, drafting, amateur scouting, international scouting...they just didn't do much for years to progress any of that.

 

[Docwaukee]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:06 PM, Stradling said:

Cam, Buttrey, Noe.  

forgot about Noe he's interesting because he doesn't throw hard but locates well.  

but just to be clear, his FIP is still above 4 which means there is some smoke and mirrors in his peripherals like Cam.  Point it, maybe they outperform those peripherals consistently going forward, but that doesn't happen too often with relievers.  

Not sure why you brought up Buttrey as he was actually better last year.  His recent stumbling could be work load related, but prior to that there was a nearly non-existent sample size.  

Overall, they either need to do a better job of finding pitchers who meld well with the current approach or take a new approach.  I see a disconnect there right now in both sequencing and what actual pitches they are having them throw and how often.  

I'd also like to bring up Stratton who has done very well out of the pen for Pitt.  He is throwing the fastball a lot more and out of the pen his velo has ticked up about 3 mph.