Jose Ramirez

[Angelsjunky]

I know he's not an Angel but I think this deserves its own thread. The dude has completely collapses. Last August he was considered an MVP candidate, not far behind Betts and Trout. Since August 18 he's hit .187/.298/.288 in 446 PA. 

Here's an article.

[floplag]

Kole Calhoun part deux?    the one stat that jumps out to me is over 3 times the shifts.  Its gotten in his head and he cant make the adjustment.   Its a shame really but i suspect well start to see more guys falter.  It speaks well of Calhoun that he has so far been able to somewhat overcome it. 

[Second Base]

Just another also-ran in the ever growing list of players that hang around Trout for a couple years and steal some MVP votes before fading away.  Miguel Cabrera, Josh Donaldson, Victor Martinez, Lorenzo Cain, Jose Altuve, Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez....

It's astonishing that Trout has only won two.  It's like MLB propagates every one of these guys as elite, and they win an MVP (challenge for one) and then simply fade away, whether because of age or they just weren't that good.  In fact, if you were to take predictions on who would win the AL MVP, it's becoming increasingly more common for Mike Trout not to win rather than win, despite being the better player and having a better season. 

So who will MLB hype up this year in the AL?  Bregman, Polanco, maybe Gallo?  All good players, but not a single one belongs in the same conversation as Mike Trout.  And the MVP award is very much a conversation. 

[Angelsjunky]

@floplagI hear you, although to be fair to Kole, while his BA is down from 2013-16, his power is way up. Some part of how he "overcame" it seems to be an increase in power. He's on pace to post career bests in HR and SLG and could have his best year since 2016.

As for Ramirez, what is so striking is how extreme this collapse is - and at such a young age. This isn't Pujols, Miggy, or Votto. This is a player who was 3rd best in the majors in 2017-18 at age 24-25, and a total disaster at age 26. It sounds like a rather extreme case of the "shift yips."

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Just another also-ran in the ever growing list of players that hang around Trout for a couple years and steal some MVP votes before fading away.  Miguel Cabrera, Josh Donaldson, Victor Martinez, Lorenzo Cain, Jose Altuve, Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez....

It's astonishing that Trout has only won two.  It's like MLB propagates every one of these guys as elite, and they win an MVP (challenge for one) and then simply fade away, whether because of age or they just weren't that good.  In fact, if you were to take predictions on who would win the AL MVP, it's becoming increasingly more common for Mike Trout not to win rather than win, despite being the better player and having a better season. 

So who will MLB hype up this year in the AL?  Bregman, Polanco, maybe Gallo?  All good players, but not a single one belongs in the same conversation as Mike Trout.  And the MVP award is very much a conversation. 

The MVP award is for the year, and while I agree that Trout has been the best overall player since 2012 by a long-shot, in many of those years a player rose up and actually was as good or even slightly better. Betts had a 10.4 fWAR last year - better than Trout's ever had. At the very worst, he was as good as Trout that year (who was at 9.8). I mean that is part of what makes Trout so great: there is sometimes, even usually, a guy who has a season as good as Trout, but it is always "Player X vs. Trout." He's  the consistent factor.

All of those players you listed are very good to great players, some future Hall of Famers. So yes, they are or were elite. Are they Trout? No, but I'm not sure why you're bagging them for not being as good as one of the greatest players in baseball history.

We also don't know how Trout is going to age. He really is a very similar player to Mickey Mantle, who started declining in his early 30s. But Mickey also liked to drink and didn't take care of himself like Trout does, so hopefully things will be different.

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

@floplagI hear you, although to be fair to Kole, while his BA is down from 2013-16, his power is way up. Some part of how he "overcame" it seems to be an increase in power. He's on pace to post career bests in HR and SLG and could have his best year since 2016.

As for Ramirez, what is so striking is how extreme this collapse is - and at such a young age. This isn't Pujols, Miggy, or Votto. This is a player who was 3rd best in the majors in 2017-18 at age 24-25, and a total disaster at age 26. It sounds like a rather extreme case of the "shift yips."

Agreed, seems to have really gotten in his head hard... like hes second guessing everything.  Im guessing of course but its the one huge anomaly i saw in those numbers. 

[Mark PT]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I know he's not an Angel but I think this deserves its own thread. The dude has completely collapses. Last August he was considered an MVP candidate, not far behind Betts and Trout. Since August 18 he's hit .187/.298/.288 in 446 PA. 

Here's an article.

I think it either an injury he is not forthcoming about or just unable to adjust. Pitchers will constantly adjust and hitters must respond.

[T.G.]

Baseball is hard

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

@floplagI hear you, although to be fair to Kole, while his BA is down from 2013-16, his power is way up. Some part of how he "overcame" it seems to be an increase in power. He's on pace to post career bests in HR and SLG and could have his best year since 2016.

As for Ramirez, what is so striking is how extreme this collapse is - and at such a young age. This isn't Pujols, Miggy, or Votto. This is a player who was 3rd best in the majors in 2017-18 at age 24-25, and a total disaster at age 26. It sounds like a rather extreme case of the "shift yips."

Carlos Baerga redux... Only worse.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Agreed, seems to have really gotten in his head hard... like hes second guessing everything.  Im guessing of course but its the one huge anomaly i saw in those numbers. 

Ramirez wasn't very good the second half of last year.  So whatever changes the pitchers made, has him stumped. 

[m0nkey]

The power of Angelswin.com

Since June 21:

196 PAs, .320/.367/.674 with 14 HR and 7 steals and has accumulated 2.5 of his 2.6 fWAR

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

The power of Angelswin.com

Since June 21:

196 PAs, .320/.367/.674 with 14 HR and 7 steals and has accumulated 2.5 of his 2.6 fWAR

AJ skus.

[kevinb]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:12 PM, Second Base said:

Just another also-ran in the ever growing list of players that hang around Trout for a couple years and steal some MVP votes before fading away.  Miguel Cabrera, Josh Donaldson, Victor Martinez, Lorenzo Cain, Jose Altuve, Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez....

It's astonishing that Trout has only won two.  It's like MLB propagates every one of these guys as elite, and they win an MVP (challenge for one) and then simply fade away, whether because of age or they just weren't that good.  In fact, if you were to take predictions on who would win the AL MVP, it's becoming increasingly more common for Mike Trout not to win rather than win, despite being the better player and having a better season. 

So who will MLB hype up this year in the AL?  Bregman, Polanco, maybe Gallo?  All good players, but not a single one belongs in the same conversation as Mike Trout.  And the MVP award is very much a conversation. 

Did you call Miguel Cabrera an also ran? Haha incredible 

[2112]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:12 PM, Angelsjunky said:

@floplagI hear you, although to be fair to Kole, while his BA is down from 2013-16, his power is way up. Some part of how he "overcame" it seems to be an increase in power. He's on pace to post career bests in HR and SLG and could have his best year since 2016.

As for Ramirez, what is so striking is how extreme this collapse is - and at such a young age. This isn't Pujols, Miggy, or Votto. This is a player who was 3rd best in the majors in 2017-18 at age 24-25, and a total disaster at age 26. It sounds like a rather extreme case of the "shift yips."

Reminds me when the outfield moved in on Reggie Willits.  Since he didn't have any kind of power to make the outfielders honest.

I think that is why Trout is in a class by himself - if the opposition figures out somehow to get him out, he works on that aspect of his game.

[Angel Oracle]

Remember when the Indians had the worst offense in the AL earlier this year?    Me neither, now up to 9th in runs scored and 8th in OPS.  

After starting off 34-33, they are currently 39-16 after June 12.

[m0nkey]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Remember when the Indians had the worst offense in the AL earlier this year?    Me neither, now up to 9th in runs scored and 8th in OPS.  

After starting off 34-33, they are currently 39-16 after June 12.

The day this thread started. The Indians have AJ to thank

[IIIII]

Indians fans talked about this on Reddit. It’s because he tried to completely change his game to beat the shift. He was trying too hard to hit it to the opposite field which ruined other parts of his hitting game. They even pinpointed the date when he just went back to his old swing and that’s about when he ocmeoltely turned it around.

[Fish Oil]

1 hour ago, IIIII said:

Indians fans talked about this on Reddit. It’s because he tried to completely change his game to beat the shift. He was trying too hard to hit it to the opposite field which ruined other parts of his hitting game. They even pinpointed the date when he just went back to his old swing and that’s about when he ocmeoltely turned it around.

Three points for inventing a new word.