My main issue with the WAR stat...(Trout)

[Taylor]

Bonds' late seasons were all manufactured by steroids. No one can put up those kinds of numbers at age 40 without chemicals.

But yes, he was a HOF-caliber player before his roid-infused late seasons.

[UndertheHalo]

I am an all in supporter of baseball players destroying their bodies with steroids and HGH and whatever to entertain me an help my favorite baseball team win.  The right to troll my asshole friends is very important to me. 

Get Albert on that shit immediately. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

A third of the league was on roids, just as many were pitchers, and not a single player could approach his level. No one has dominated this game at that level since Ruth.

[tomsred]

 

14 hours ago, tomsred said:

60 HBP would shatter the Hughie Jennings record of 51 HBP in 1896.

13 hours ago, Glen said:

This sounds like an AO post.

Well, I've probably read more than 2,000 of his posts.  After a while it rubs off.

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, tomsred said:

rubs off.

 

[m0nkey]

Mike trout thread turns to Barry bonds/PED. 

 

Just another thread at angelswin 

[Lou]

imagine Trout with a Barroid-sized head.

 

[tdawg87]

39 minutes ago, Lou said:

imagine Trout with a Barroid-sized head.

 

Which head

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, True Grich said:

 

He should change his name to GueatherGuank

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

His head was a lot bigger than a normal human so he could see the ball coming out the pitcher's hand much better. Dude was a physical freak and chemicals had a significant part of that. The Man With The Enormous Head.

But all joking aside, I don't think roids produced his amazing hand/eye coordination or bat speed. Maybe a doctor can weigh in on that. In those years anything in the hitting zone he routinely sent out of the park, and it quickly got out.

Bonds was the best player of the 90s, before he started taking steroids after the 1998 season. He was actually pretty similar to Trout. 

My theory is that steroids allowed him to combine the best of youth and age, with an increase in bat speed and strength that made him the best hitter in major league history for four years, at age 36-39. Steroids boosted the performance of a lot of players, but he was the best player to seriously use them--and just a damn smart hitter--and thus his numbers were so damn amazing. From 2001-04 he hit .349/.558/.810 with 209 HR, a 232 wRC+ and 47.3 fWAR.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

A third of the league was on roids, just as many were pitchers, and not a single player could approach his level. No one has dominated this game at that level since Ruth.

I think even saying a third is putting it light. Id bet it was closer to everyone, more or less, at least at some point of their career.

I think people forget how many minor league guys were geared up. Some made it to thr bigs, some didnt. But id bet most at least dabbled at one point or another.

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Bonds was the best player of the 90s, before he started taking steroids after the 1998 season. He was actually pretty similar to Trout. 

My theory is that steroids allowed him to combine the best of youth and age, with an increase in bat speed and strength that made him the best hitter in major league history for four years, at age 36-39. Steroids boosted the performance of a lot of players, but he was the best player to seriously use them--and just a damn smart hitter--and thus his numbers were so damn amazing. From 2001-04 he hit .349/.558/.810 with 209 HR, a 232 wRC+ and 47.3 fWAR.

 

And again, he totally cheated doing that.

.... but so did almost every pitcher who tried to get him out, and every other hitter competing with him.

And agreed on pre juice bonds. Thats the closest comp for trout i can think of.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I think even saying a third is putting it light. Id bet it was closer to everyone, more or less, at least at some point of their career.

I think people forget how many minor league guys were geared up. Some made it to thr bigs, some didnt. But id bet most at least dabbled at one point or another.

For sure, I just wanted to make the point without someone accusing me of exaggerating. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

A third of the league was on roids, just as many were pitchers, and not a single player could approach his level. No one has dominated this game at that level since Ruth.

Clean Bonds was better than all the other clean players. 

Cheater Bonds was better than all the other cheaters. 

I covered the Giants throughout all that and it was pretty amazing to watch, regardless of whatever help he had. 

[Stradling]

40 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Clean Bonds was better than all the other clean players. 

Cheater Bonds was better than all the other cheaters. 

I covered the Giants throughout all that and it was pretty amazing to watch, regardless of whatever help he had. 

Do you vote for him to get into the hall of fame?  

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Clean Bonds was better than all the other clean players. 

Cheater Bonds was better than all the other cheaters. 

I covered the Giants throughout all that and it was pretty amazing to watch, regardless of whatever help he had. 

As great as Trout has been through the first week and a half of the season he would have to maintain roughly this level of production for four straight years to dominate at Bonds level. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Do you vote for him to get into the hall of fame?  

Yes. Every time.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

54 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

As great as Trout has been through the first week and a half of the season he would have to maintain roughly this level of production for four straight years to dominate at Bonds level. 

I consider myself pretty fortunate to have been a beat writer covering Bonds and Trout at the height of their ridiculousness. 

[Angelsfan1984]

28 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I consider myself pretty fortunate to have been a beat writer covering Bonds and Trout at the height of their ridiculousness. 

Yes but have you ever seen anything as glorious Dallas McPherson in his prime. I heard that guy could could chop down a tree with 1 swing. Don’t get me started on the living legend Brandon wood. I’m going to tell my children about all the times I watched him swing the lumber. 

[Tank]

58 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Yes but have you ever seen anything as glorious Dallas McPherson in his prime. I heard that guy could could chop down a tree with 1 swing. Don’t get me started on the living legend Brandon wood. I’m going to tell my children about all the times I watched him swing the lumber. 

once again . . . macpherson didn't make it long term because of injuries, not being a terrible player. gigantic difference between him and wood.

[ScottT]

Bonds was amazing.

[101halo]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I consider myself pretty fortunate to have been a beat writer covering Bonds and Trout at the height of their ridiculousness. 

Whether someone agrees with you or not, I can't stress enough how much I appreciate you stating your vote publicly. The HOF voters that remain discrete remove the ability for an honest discourse on the subject. 

I support Bonds and Clemens getting in, because they're integral to telling the story of the era. I also want an exhibit that speaks to the steroid era and the cloud of suspicion around it, in narrative form. It's history. Tell the story. 

[Angelsfan1984]

6 hours ago, Tank said:

once again . . . macpherson didn't make it long term because of injuries, not being a terrible player. gigantic difference between him and wood.

He injured the part of his brain that gave him the ability to hit a baseball. 

[fan_since79]

I still feel cheated that the only time I saw Bonds in person (in a game in SF) they walked him three times. On another AB he swung at a curve ball and grounded weakly to third.

 

[Jeremiah]

21 hours ago, Lou said:

imagine Trout with a Barroid-sized head.

 

Dochalo’s old profile pic.