Tough question on Trout

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

You’re right ... but it does open a roster spot and  put the team well under the luxury tax. 

Releasing him doesn't cut his cap figure...  

[Inside Pitch]

12 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I love what they are doing overall.  Eppler has things going in the right direction and as a fan there really is nothing better than having really good homegrown players.  I am all in.

I just think a 26 year old in their prime is a fantastic add to that, especially when I think the success of the youth movement (coat controlled) will make it even easier to afford it.

This is a fair statement but for the sake of discussion, you felt similarly about investing into Hosner last year -- one year in and that deal is already looking pretty awful.  As fans we have got to believe their analytics are arguing against the sort of money Harper is looking to land.  At some point if you love what they are doing overall then you gotta trust the process.   Either way there are no guarantees.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is a fair statement but for the sake of discussion, you felt similarly about investing into Hosner last year -- one year in and that deal is already looking pretty awful.  As fans we have got to believe their analytics are arguing against the sort of money Harper is looking to land.  At some point if you love what they are doing overall then you gotta trust the process.   Either way there are no guarantees.

Yes I was desperately wanting the Angels to move on from Pujols.

But sure I do have to accept the entirety of the decisons.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yes I was desperately wanting the Angels to move on from Pujols.

We all do.   

I tell myself that had it not been for the Hamilton deal Arte may have been more willing to treat the AP signing as a sunk cost and move on from it but that is likely wishful thinking on my part.    All BS aside... that run of Wells, AP, Blanton, Hamilton has to be one of the worst string of bad moves on record by any one team. 

FWIW, feels bad lumping AP with the others as his issue is he got old -- the others were bad bets at hello.

[NJHalo]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

We all do.   

I tell myself that had it not been for the Hamilton deal Arte may have been more willing to treat the AP signing as a sunk cost and move on from it but that is likely wishful thinking on my part.    All BS aside... that run of Wells, AP, Blanton, Hamilton has to be one of the worst string of bad moves on record by any one team. 

FWIW, feels bad lumping AP with the others as his issue is he got old -- the others were bad bets at hello.

 

Sorry, just looking for any excuse to use this picture. 

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

  All BS aside... that run of Wells, AP, Blanton, Hamilton has to be one of the worst string of bad moves on record by any one team. 

 

Don't forget the contract that started the streak.

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

This question alone is why it's pointless to debate this with you -- anyone that believes the investment into the team shouldn't have an impact on what people pay to attend games is beyond the point of rational discourse.   MLB is not an NPO, nor is it a charity organization.

And the questioned asked was -- how much more.  Saying you'd pay more for "a better product" is a non answer.   Are you willing to go where the Dodgers and Yankees have asked their fans to go?  

Beg your pardon but it was the entire point of my question -- you not wanting to address it because you feel entitled to an owner spending money without regards to his bottom line has no bearing on my asking the actual question.. 

So, lets try this again...  How much are you willing to pay?  The Yankees, and Dodgers both have passed the buck onto the fan...  Both make significantly more money than the Angels, so your idea of what's enough profit doesn't seem to jive with whats actually happening in the real world.   I make bring this up because you're the one that argued that the gap in revenue between those teams and the Angels isn't that great, and that they could go spend more if they only wanted to.  Well, those teams are asking their fans to pay more despite having greater revenue streams.... so, stop pretending the two things aren't connected.

Those fans have put their money where their mouths are -- Are you willing to pay as much as those fans and remember -- "THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES" free agency will lead to winning or, "a better product".  I get this sneaking suspicion that should the team invest the dollars you see fit, your willingness to support their investment would be 100% connected to the actual performance and not the investment. 

Something about having your cake and eating it too. 

Why do some of you insist on dragging the Dodgers or Yankees into discussions when no one, least of all myself, has asked the team to go to those levels? 
You ask loaded question to support your view without even considering the fact that there are degrees between one and the other.  If its pointless its because you make it so by narrowing the scope when there are options outside of that.  Asking the team to spend a bit more is not the same thing as asking them to blow the tax and spend 225M.  IF I had asked them to do that i would expect to pay to support it, if that answers your question, but please remember i haven't asked that so i would not expect to pay that to support something between them. 
I asked them to let me have a slice of cake, and save the rest for later, big big  difference.  

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

Why do some of you insist on dragging the Dodgers or Yankees into discussions when no one, least of all myself, has asked the team to go to those levels? 
You ask loaded question to support your view without even considering the fact that there are degrees between one and the other.  If its pointless its because you make it so by narrowing the scope when there are options outside of that.  Asking the team to spend a bit more is not the same thing as asking them to blow the tax and spend 225M.  IF I had asked them to do that i would expect to pay to support it, if that answers your question, but please remember i haven't asked that so i would not expect to pay that to support something between them. 
I asked them to let me have a slice of cake, and save the rest for later, big big  difference.  

Another non answer.  

[floplag]

18 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Another non answer.  

Yep, from another bullshit question.

[Inside Pitch]

8 hours ago, floplag said:

Why do some of you insist on dragging the Dodgers or Yankees into discussions when no one, least of all myself, has asked the team to go to those levels? 

YOU dragged them into it..  I responded to YOUR post where YOU brought them up.    Why is it you never own up to your BS?  It's not my fault you struggle to make your case without sinking your own arguments.

8 hours ago, floplag said:

You ask loaded question to support your view without even considering the fact that there are degrees between one and the other. 

Stop projecting.  I didn't offer any view.

I pointed out the team costs indexes of the respective teams that YOU brought up and how despite the fact that they had revenue advantages, their fans were being asked to foot the bill to a significantly greater degree than what is being asked of Angels fans.  The only person incapable of thinking things through is you, like always.   You can't talk up the points that support your opinion then ask people to ignore all the realities that wreck your argument.

So, to recap I asked a question that as usual you're too chickenshit too answer directly..   You still haven't.

8 hours ago, floplag said:

Asking the team to spend a bit more is not the same thing as asking them to blow the tax and spend 225M.  IF I had asked them to do that i would expect to pay to support it, if that answers your question, but please remember i haven't asked that so i would not expect to pay that to support something between them. 

Look at who's still trying to further his POV...     

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to actually answer the question.  HOW much would you be willing to see the prices rise in order to make your little dream of greater expenditures a reality...

Edit: see below -- no need to answer.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yep, from another bullshit question.

Another vag-tastical dodge...  Don't sweat it.   I have my answer and once again wasted my time.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Another vag-tastical dodge...  Don't sweat it.   I have my answer and once again wasted my time.

It wasn’t a total waste of time, I enjoyed reading you destroying him per usual.  

[Inside Pitch]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It wasn’t a total waste of time, I enjoyed reading you destroying him per usual.  

Meh -- would prefer a legit dialogue once in a while.   

BTW -- for the record.  Its been more expensive for me to go to Marlins games (up until the purge), than it ever was to attend Angel games in Anaheim when they were a top three payroll and a perpetual playoff team.   Moreno has always been really big on the idea that keeping the game affordable FOR FAMILIES is in the best interest of the sport, he's held his end of that bargain up better than most of the rest of MLB.  When he went on his wild spending sprees he was pretty vocal that it was to reward the fans who had shown so much support..  So, I really don't get the animus towards him from some people... of all the Angels' villains the Arte hate is the one I least understand.   Do I think he could spend more?  Absolutely..  EVERY MLB owner can..  Do I think he will?  Yes, if only because he has actually done it.  Do I think spending now makes sense?  No, not really but neither would I have bitched about it.  Also the guy I wanted most possibly carried the biggest risk of any player who was available this year -- Eovaldi.  So, Im not immune to wanting to spend or risk.  

Of Machado/Harper...  Machado made a lot more sense but I can't think of a player I like less.   Never have two 26 year old legit front line players induced more of a meh from me than these two...   Ill say this much -- if Machado had Harper's drive -- dude would be more than worth the money.   Harper may never live up to the hype (not his fault), but I don't question his desire -- he's a lot easier to like even with the hair flips and whatever than Machado will ever be.

Also -- when it comes to Trout, the Clod Wars completely numbed me to the talk about him possibly leaving.  I made peace with the reality that his staying or leaving is 100% up to him and that the Angels only concern is to try to build a winner, hopefully one that includes him but if he goes, he goes..   When I look at the Phillies I don't see guaranteed winning there.  I see a team that has gutted some of its farm system and will be needing to replace or spend a lot more to retain their biggest offseason acquisition (Realmuto), when Trout becomes available.  If Philly is really the Angels primary competition then Im not sure their being huge winners is a huge concern, at least not as big a concern as his possibly wanting to have kids and have them be closer to his family which I do see as the biggest allure for him.

So... Arte.. Save your money and throw enough money where Mike Trout can buy the entire Trout clan a West Coast compound.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[T.G.]

So... what was the question again?

[floplag]

13 minutes ago, True Grich said:

So... what was the question again?

apparently they were asking if i would be willing to pay Dodgers costs for less effort, which of course i would not, but that answer didnt seem to be what they were looking for so i was dodging.    

[Docwaukee]

32 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Meh -- would prefer a legit dialogue once in a while.   

BTW -- for the record.  Its been more expensive for me to go to Marlins games (up until the purge), than it ever was to attend Angel games in Anaheim when they were a top three payroll and a perpetual playoff team.   Moreno has always been really big on the idea that keeping the game affordable FOR FAMILIES is in the best interest of the sport, he's held his end of that bargain up better than most of the rest of MLB.  When he went on his wild spending sprees he was pretty vocal that it was to reward the fans who had shown so much support..  So, I really don't get the animus towards him from some people... of all the Angels' villains the Arte hate is the one I least understand.   Do I think he could spend more?  Absolutely..  EVERY MLB owner can..  Do I think he will?  Yes, if only because he has actually done it.  Do I think spending now makes sense?  No, not really but neither would I have bitched about it.  Also the guy I wanted most possibly carried the biggest risk of any player who was available this year -- Eovaldi.  So, Im not immune to wanting to spend or risk.  

Of Machado/Harper...  Machado made a lot more sense but I can't think of a player I like less.   Never have two 26 year old legit front line players induced more of a meh from me than these two...   Ill say this much -- if Machado had Harper's drive -- dude would be more than worth the money.   Harper may never live up to the hype (not his fault), but I don't question his desire -- he's a lot easier to like even with the hair flips and whatever than Machado will ever be.

Also -- when it comes to Trout, the Clod Wars completely numbed me to the talk about him possibly leaving.  I made peace with the reality that his staying or leaving is 100% up to him and that the Angels only concern is to try to build a winner, hopefully one that includes him but if he goes, he goes..   When I look at the Phillies I don't see guaranteed winning there.  I see a team that has gutted some of its farm system and will be needing to replace or spend a lot more to retain their biggest offseason acquisition (Realmuto), when Trout becomes available.  If Philly is really the Angels primary competition then Im not sure their being huge winners is a huge concern, at least not as big a concern as his possibly wanting to have kids and have them be closer to his family which I do see as the biggest allure for him.

So... Arte.. Save your money and throw enough money where Mike Trout can buy the entire Trout clan a West Coast compound.

It was three years age while in the throes of the Hamilton debacle that fans were done with frivolous spending.  At the end of the day it comes down to making good decisions.  I don't doubt Harper and Machado are potential franchise level players but I still contend that you are paying for all of the extras they bring to give that value which the Angels would have a tough time realizing due to the fact that they already have two very unique players.  

I think the FO also has a better sense of whether a lot of our young guys are for real.  We can follow pundits who give them and the collective various rankings but those within the org are going to know the real story.  Eppler will give the press a line about having a top 5 farm, but it's really about how they feel toward individual players and they obviously feel very good.  

[Inside Pitch]

45 minutes ago, floplag said:

apparently they were asking if i would be willing to pay Dodgers costs for less effort, which of course i would not, but that answer didnt seem to be what they were looking for so i was dodging.    

This is why you're a waste of time..  

First, there was no they -- I asked the question, stop trying to make it into another one of your "oh they are mean to me" cry sessions.  Second, you had no reservations trying to cry foul and lie about what was asked instead of just answering what was a pretty simple question.  The real beauty was that there was no wrong answer to what was actually asked..   

Whatever floats your boat..  Keep trying save face by misrepresenting what has been said -- it speaks far more loudly than whatever tripe you would have actually said if you weren't such a dodgy bitch. 
 

[Mark68]

2 hours ago, yk9001 said:

Don't forget the contract that started the streak.

That was pretty much the catch that started the streak. 

*Shakes fist* Damn you Private Matthews!

[floplag]

33 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

This is why you're a waste of time..  

First, there was no they -- I asked the question, stop trying to make it into another one of your "oh they are mean to me" cry sessions.  Second, you had no reservations trying to cry foul and lie about what was asked instead of just answering what was a pretty simple question.  The real beauty was that there was no wrong answer to what was actually asked..   

Whatever floats your boat..  Keep trying save face by misrepresenting what has been said -- it speaks far more loudly than whatever tripe you would have actually said if you weren't such a dodgy bitch. 
 

And yet you keep going out of your way to spend that time... as do the clones... funny, lol 
i answered your question, you didnt like the answer, thats on you.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

And yet you keep going out of your way to spend that time... as do the clones... funny, lol 
i answered your question, you didnt like the answer, thats on you.  

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies...

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 2/27/2019 at 11:40 AM, Dtwncbad said:

Jeff wasn't there.a comment not too long ago about the Angels not making money or barely making money? I really thought there was?

I don’t remember that at all. 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I don’t remember that at all. 

 

 

[Lou]

Arte should have given Harper 14/$350M. He can afford it. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

 

 

Ha. Ok. 

I didn’t remember that. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Can't we all get along?.... 

Why do the Stat Geeks GAF about what someone else's opinion is? And why berate them. And why are the others poking the Stat Geeks? You know you'll never win! There is more of them and they will just bury you in statistics and analytics....

What was the more logical response?   Great Read, Very Informative, Keep up the Great work!

 

Sometimes, the hilarity from both sides.... Just watching it all unfold....Bottom line, we are all fans of the Team figure it out and don't point fingers or call people out. This is an arena where many people knowledgeable (real world, statisticians, Joe Shmo and not) can coexist. Even when I get into it with whoever, doesn't mean I discredit them from other threads. Lou and I bump heads all the time. Sometimes, we agree..... THE INSANITY!!!!