Moustakas question

[Torridd]

It's been bandied that the Machado loser will go after Moose. Do you think the Angels may also be waiting?

[AngelArcher]

Waiting on what? Do you think the Angels are in on Machado? I don't think they are and if they're interested in Moose, then waiting would be the worst thing to do. 

 

[DMVol]

Moose has Boras for his agent.  Waiting is always part of the deal with Boras.  Worked out real well for Moose last winter...

[stormngt]

Why the hell do we keep talking about Moose?

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Why the hell do we keep talking about Moose?

Item #1:
Moustakas ('15-'18) - .267/.324/.484/.808 while averaging 30 doubles, 29 HR, 42 BB, 91 strikeouts in 149 games his last 3 full seasons
Angels 3B in 2018 - .220/.278/.369/.648 with 31 doubles, 18 HR, 43 BB, 166 K

Item #2:
He's available via FA and potentially not very expensive.

Item #3:
The Angels apparently are still willing to spend, since being named finalists for Britton, and had also been connected with Josh Harrison.
Conversely, the Angels haven't been linked to him, as was the case with Harvey, Cahill, and Lucroy.

Item #4:
It moves Cozart to 2B, where he hit and fielded better last year than 3B. 
Doesn't cost any prospects and provides additional depth at 1B. 
His defense is solid and he hits well in clutch, high-lev, and RISP situations.
Also could help free up one of Ward, Rengifo, or Fletcher in a deal for relief help.

Edited January 10, 2019 by totdprods

[T.G.]

22 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Why the hell do we keep talking about Moose?

[stevestevens]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Item #1:
Moustakas ('15-'18) - .267/.324/.484/.808 while averaging 30 doubles, 29 HR, 42 BB, 91 strikeouts in 149 games his last 3 full seasons
Angels 3B in 2018 - .220/.278/.369/.648 with 31 doubles, 18 HR, 43 BB, 166 K

 

Not sure about moose. I for one don't want to see a decrease in the doubles production for 2019.

[IEAngelsfan]

58 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Moose has Boras for his agent.  Waiting is always part of the deal with Boras.  Worked out real well for Moose last winter...

If I were Moose, I would've fired Boras.  He completely misread the market.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, AngelArcher said:

Waiting on what? Do you think the Angels are in on Machado? I don't think they are and if they're interested in Moose, then waiting would be the worst thing to do. 

 

if the Angels are interested and Mous is a potential fall back for either the CWS or Phills, then of the two parties, who do you think is the one waiting to see what happens?  

my guess is that other Moustakas suitors have been told there's a 'buy me now' price but no one likes it.  

[AngelArcher]

I'm not trying to do any calculus right now Doc

[totdprods]

I actually think Moose is going to wind up getting a healthy contract, much more than than 2/$18m that I think most of us here have been speculating could be realistic. 

Annual value might not be much more than that, but I think he's going to wind up snagging three or four years (maybe just in option form) for $10m-15m annually, and I could very well see it happening in Philly or for the White Sox. I would not want the Angels to go more than 2 years.

Edited January 10, 2019 by totdprods

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Item #1:
Moustakas ('15-'18) - .267/.324/.484/.808 while averaging 30 doubles, 29 HR, 42 BB, 91 strikeouts in 149 games his last 3 full seasons
Angels 3B in 2018 - .220/.278/.369/.648 with 31 doubles, 18 HR, 43 BB, 166 K

Item #2:
He's available via FA and potentially not very expensive.

Item #3:
The Angels apparently are still willing to spend, since being named finalists for Britton, and had also been connected with Josh Harrison.
Conversely, the Angels haven't been linked to him, as was the case with Harvey, Cahill, and Lucroy.

Item #4:
It moves Cozart to 2B, where he hit and fielded better last year than 3B. 
Doesn't cost any prospects and provides additional depth at 1B. 
His defense is solid and he hits well in clutch, high-lev, and RISP situations.
Also could help free up one of Ward, Rengifo, or Fletcher in a deal for relief help.

Final item:

Eppler said publicly that our infield needs can be resolved in house. 

 

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Final item:

Eppler said publicly that our infield needs can be resolved in house. 

Key words there were 'can be', not 'will be'. He's said that he's always been opportunistic there and that the depth this season allows him to focus first on pitching, but it doesn't rule it out.
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/01/angels-to-focus-on-pitching-market-while-looking-internally-for-offensive-upgrades/

And there's still a good chance the Angels are looking at trade options for pitching help, which was always the focus, and if those trades wind up depleting into that IF stock, it could become an option, especially given the rumors with San Fran.

I now expect Moose to get a contract above what I'd imagine the Angels are interested in anyways, so it's probably moot.

Edited January 10, 2019 by totdprods

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Key words there were 'can be', not 'will be'. He's said that he's always been opportunistic there and that the depth this season allows him to focus first on pitching, but it doesn't rule it out.
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/10/01/angels-to-focus-on-pitching-market-while-looking-internally-for-offensive-upgrades/

And there's still a good chance the Angels are looking at trade options for pitching help, which was always the focus, and if those trades wind up depleting into that IF stock, it could become an option, especially given the rumors with San Fran.

I now expect Moose to get a contract above what I'd imagine the Angels are interested in anyways, so it's probably moot.

It's been moot for 12 months now but you still keep talking about him.

[Angel Oracle]

Eventually, we would hope that Ward, Rengifo, and Fletcher provide positive answers.    Do we want for the Halos to rely on all three to start 2019, though? 

[angelsnationtalk]

I don't think the Angels are going after any infielders. In fact, I think that's the one thing they're not looking at. 

here's the depth for 2019 at 3B and 2B:

3B: Cozart, Ward, La Stella, Fletcher.

2B: Fletcher, Cozart, La Stella, Rengifo.

If the Angels do anymore moves it'll be for bullpen depth. I honestly think that's it....

If Moose is signed, then the Angels will be in a shitty position in a few years at 3B and have traded away infield talent that could have taken 3B.

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I don't think the Angels are going after any infielders. In fact, I think that's the one thing they're not looking at. 

here's the depth for 2019 at 3B and 2B:

3B: Cozart, Ward, La Stella, Fletcher.

2B: Fletcher, Cozart, La Stella, Rengifo.

If the Angels do anymore moves it'll be for bullpen depth. I honestly think that's it....

If Moose is signed, then the Angels will be in a shitty position in a few years at 3B and have traded away infield talent that could have taken 3B.

Or they sign another infielder and keep everyone. 
MLB: Cozart, Simmons, FA, Bour - La Stella on bench as the UT IF.
AAA: Ward, Fletcher, Rengifo, Thaiss - Rojas, Tovar as the UT IF.

Now when someone gets hurt, we have a good prospect to promote, instead of guys like Cowart and JMF or waiver claims of years past like Brendan Ryan and Nick Franklin. All it takes is a couple inopportune injuries or suckage and we wind up with Wilfredo Tovar starting a handful of games for us.

I'm beginning to think that Moustakas and both Lowrie will probably wind up costing too much, either in years or dollars, than the Angels would prefer to spend, so both are becoming unlikely.

But I still would not be surprised if they shopped a tier lower, and kept an eye on guys like Matt Davidson, Wilmer Flores, Asdrubal Cabrera, Josh Harrison, Neil Walker, Yangervis Solarte, Freddy Galvis, or a Joe Panik trade. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by totdprods

[Kendo36]

Anyone get the feeling we give Machado an offer at the last second? The old 24 hr acceptance window. 

[Hubs]

Signing Bour made this highly unlikely. He's the left handed hitting 1st base option, who will put up similar numbers to Moustakas with a higher OBP. Granted he can't play 3rd, which is Moose's natural position, but with the young depth they have at 3rd, and Cozart, they aren't going to add a 3rd baseman.

He was more likely last year when they didn't have a starting 3rd baseman, and didn't have backup 1st baseman... other than Marte and Fernandez, and they traded Cron after signing Ohtani.Now they have Bour as major league ready backup and Thaiss in the minors who is nearly ready.

At third, obviously Cozart was the starter last year but was probably penciled in for 2nd and Moose was among the options at 3rd last offseason, before they traded for Kinsler.

Now, They still have Cozart, Fletcher has shown he can handle the position defensively, they traded for LaStella, who can play the position, AND they have Taylor Ward, who while not providing much in the majors last year, showed he could handle the position after a switch, and dominated 2 different levels in his first try at them. I know Cozart also did this, but he struggled for years with the bat, before dominating at SLC in the hitter friendly environment. Ward though also had a nearly identical line at AA, which shows it wasn't just a symptom of SLC's cool air.

He's always hit, which is why I wanted him to come up and be the starting Catcher, but obviously they believe in his bat more than his catching skills, and moved him out from behind the dish.

 

 

[totdprods]

16 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Signing Bour made this highly unlikely. He's the left handed hitting 1st base option, who will put up similar numbers to Moustakas with a higher OBP. Granted he can't play 3rd, which is Moose's natural position, but with the young depth they have at 3rd, and Cozart, they aren't going to add a 3rd baseman.

He was more likely last year when they didn't have a starting 3rd baseman, and didn't have backup 1st baseman... other than Marte and Fernandez, and they traded Cron after signing Ohtani.Now they have Bour as major league ready backup and Thaiss in the minors who is nearly ready.

At third, obviously Cozart was the starter last year but was probably penciled in for 2nd and Moose was among the options at 3rd last offseason, before they traded for Kinsler.

Now, They still have Cozart, Fletcher has shown he can handle the position defensively, they traded for LaStella, who can play the position, AND they have Taylor Ward, who while not providing much in the majors last year, showed he could handle the position after a switch, and dominated 2 different levels in his first try at them. I know Cozart also did this, but he struggled for years with the bat, before dominating at SLC in the hitter friendly environment. Ward though also had a nearly identical line at AA, which shows it wasn't just a symptom of SLC's cool air.

While in general you are correct, you are making a few risky assumptions here, and the idea of signing Moose (or Lowrie, or Asdrubal Cabrera, or Matt Davidson) provides a contingency if those assumptions don't ring true. Much like how Valbuena was supposed to be our insurance if Albert wound up hurt or sucking.

Bour has been, in rapid succession, traded following a waiver claim, non-tendered, and signed for a cheap deal because he is a fairly limited player who trended downwards significantly at an age that's not encouraging for a major rebound. Is it possible he puts up lines similar to Moustakas? Yes. Is it probable? Not very likely. Thaiss is close to MLB-ready, but with Bour's potential risk and Pujols' health, I would be surprised if the Angels truly wanted to have Thaiss lined up as #3 on the depth charts (yes, I know Kole/catchers could play there in a pinch), especially consider he isn't on the 40-man and does not have to be until next fall.

Zack Cozart looked considerably better defensively, and hit better, playing 2B last season (albeit a small sample size) so moving him there full-time should be considered. 

Tommy La Stella has ~400 games to his career, and hasn't started even half of them. He'll be used more as an Angel, but that certainly doesn't mean he'll perform to his career averages, and being given to more playing time could actually expose those weaknesses. I don't think he's too different from most other infielders that float through waiver claims during the season.

David Fletcher is more than capable, and I've been one of his biggest fans, but I also recognize how limited his ceiling is - a .750 OPS maybe if everything breaks right? - and that many available free agents have a decent  shot at producing more than that in a good year by a wide margin. Am I confident Fletcher would be a good starting 2B? Absolutely. But there are guys out there who could be a lot better for a bargain, and moving Fletcher into a super-utility role or the first guy up from AAA when needed gives us the best option we've had for that role in a long, long time.

[jordan]

1 hour ago, Kendo36 said:

Anyone get the feeling we give Machado an offer at the last second? The old 24 hr acceptance window. 

No. 

[floplag]

All i know is that right now today our offense is lacking and will prevent us from making any serious playoff push in my opinion.  Weve upgraded the pen a lot, the rotation quite a bit, but have done virtually nothing offensively, at least nothing significant thats going to be a difference maker.  

One could argue a full healthy season from Cozart will help a lot, and it very well might, but were still looking at a lot of very average at best bats in the bottom third. 

[Angelsfan1984]

They need to sign someone quickly so we can all complain about it for 72 pages 

[Docwaukee]

@Jeff Fletcher

can you just make something up and claim it's from your 'sources' so we have something else to talk about?   

[Angel Oracle]

Cozart had better do something with the bat in 2019.   And play better defense.    No excuses this season

I just can't believe that Billy is going to roll with ABSOLUTELY ZERO truly experienced late innings solid relievers to start 2019.   I'm not quite ready to trust Buttrey or Anderson, just yet.