Skaggs extremely overrated IMO

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Yeah, the fact it was an abductor issue and not arm related is encouraging.  He was clearly fighting through something his past two starts... 

I think he had these issues last year too...it's been so frequent the years are starting to blur haha. 

Could be that while he was recovering from TJS, dude just let it affect his entire conditioning routine and now, two years later, he's suffering the consequences, so it is encouraging that he isn't having arm problems. Hopefully he'll get on top of it throughout the winter, especially coming off the heels of a successful year on the mound, and actually be in better condition to go 30+ GS next season. 

Another thing that probably doesn't get mentioned as much...with the 10-day DL and the Angels rotating 6th SP most of the year, there's a chance some of these DL stints and one-off missed starts would not have happened in the days of the 15-day and traditional 5 SP rotation. It may add to the perception that, in theory, Skaggs or Heaney or Tropeano are 'injury-prone' when reality is that teams are way, way more willing to DL an arm these days.

[Angel Oracle]

I would probably limit Skaggs to 25 starts (150 innings) tops next season.   He hasn't pitched over 117 innings at all levels combined in a season, since 2013.

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Another thing that probably doesn't get mentioned as much...with the 10-day DL and the Angels rotating 6th SP most of the year, there's a chance some of these DL stints and one-off missed starts would not have happened in the days of the 15-day and traditional 5 SP rotation. It may add to the perception that, in theory, Skaggs or Heaney or Tropeano are 'injury-prone' when reality is that teams are way, way more willing to DL an arm these days.

Eppler seems focused on the pitcher's long term health - as evidenced by the fact that some of our draft picks from this year are not even pitching yet - so I think the orgs usage of the 10 day DL this season in relation to its SP is an extension of that thought.  Instead of keeping guys on the mound fighting through nagging injuries that could mess with mechanics or lead to fatigue, just rest them.

Also, I know that the 6 man rotation was a by-product of Ohtani's inclusion on the team but it might benefit the team to try it out again next season.  With guys like Shoemaker, Skaggs, and Tropeano all dealing with injury recovery in some form and Barria and Pena all hitting inning limits due to age/stamina, a rotation of Skaggs, Heaney, Shoemaker, Barria, Pena and Tropeano might benefit everyone (obviously this could change if they trade or sign another SP).

[totdprods]

Just now, mulwin444 said:

Eppler seems focused on the pitcher's long term health - as evidenced by the fact that some of our draft picks from this year are not even pitching yet - so I think the orgs usage of the 10 day DL this season in relation to its SP is an extension of that thought.  Instead of keeping guys on the mound fighting through nagging injuries that could mess with mechanics or lead to fatigue, just rest them.

Also, I know that the 6 man rotation was a by-product of Ohtani's inclusion on the team but it might benefit the team to try it out again next season.  With guys like Shoemaker, Skaggs, and Tropeano all dealing with injury recovery in some form and Barria and Pena all hitting inning limits due to age/stamina, a rotation of Skaggs, Heaney, Shoemaker, Barria, Pena and Tropeano might benefit everyone (obviously this could change if they trade or sign another SP).

I personally think the 6-man rotation is a great idea, regardless of Ohtani's status. It's unfortunate that our injuries have kept it from working as planned, but I'd love to see:

1) Skaggs
2) Shoemaker
3) Heaney
4) An addition - be it trade or FA
5) Barria 
6) Pena, Canning, Suarez, Farrell, Tropeano, McGuire, Bridwell...Meyer? Sandoval?

To be honest, I'd actually prefer two additions* to the rotation, almost pushing Shoemaker and even Barria into the 6 slot shuffle as well, because ultimately there will be an injury that brings them into the full-time 5. 

*= one of the additions could also be another Farrell/Bridwell-type who comes with options and is at least optionable, even if they come with a limited ceiling.
 

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I personally think the 6-man rotation is a great idea, regardless of Ohtani's status. It's unfortunate that our injuries have kept it from working as planned, but I'd love to see:

1) Skaggs
2) Shoemaker
3) Heaney
4) An addition - be it trade or FA
5) Barria 
6) Pena, Canning, Suarez, Farrell, Tropeano, McGuire, Bridwell...Meyer? Sandoval?

To be honest, I'd actually prefer two additions* to the rotation, almost pushing Shoemaker and even Barria into the 6 slot shuffle as well, because ultimately there will be an injury that brings them into the full-time 5. 

*= one of the additions could also be another Farrell/Bridwell-type who comes with options and is at least optionable, even if they come with a limited ceiling.
 

Yeah, I think Eppler needs to target two SP...the obvious move is to sign someone but, man, not too many obvious choices.  If you eliminate guys that have dealt with/missed time due to injury and have a history pitching well you are left with maybe Keuchel and Corbin.

Lance Lynn has been ass this year...Wainwright, McCarthy, Shields, Estrada, and Happ are all 35+, injured, or done...Pomeranz, Eovaldi, and Harvey all look like 1-year deal projects that can't be counted on for 150-175 IP.

Maybe two trades could be in order...

[Troll Daddy]

25 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I personally think the 6-man rotation is a great idea, regardless of Ohtani's status. It's unfortunate that our injuries have kept it from working as planned, but I'd love to see:

1) Skaggs
2) Shoemaker
3) Heaney
4) An addition - be it trade or FA
5) Barria 
6) Pena, Canning, Suarez, Farrell, Tropeano, McGuire, Bridwell...Meyer? Sandoval?

To be honest, I'd actually prefer two additions* to the rotation, almost pushing Shoemaker and even Barria into the 6 slot shuffle as well, because ultimately there will be an injury that brings them into the full-time 5. 

*= one of the additions could also be another Farrell/Bridwell-type who comes with options and is at least optionable, even if they come with a limited ceiling.
 

Did I hear correct ... the Rays are going with a three man rotation 

[Inside Pitch]

49 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think he had these issues last year too...it's been so frequent the years are starting to blur haha. 

Could be that while he was recovering from TJS, dude just let it affect his entire conditioning routine and now, two years later, he's suffering the consequences, so it is encouraging that he isn't having arm problems. Hopefully he'll get on top of it throughout the winter, especially coming off the heels of a successful year on the mound, and actually be in better condition to go 30+ GS next season. 

Another thing that probably doesn't get mentioned as much...with the 10-day DL and the Angels rotating 6th SP most of the year, there's a chance some of these DL stints and one-off missed starts would not have happened in the days of the 15-day and traditional 5 SP rotation. It may add to the perception that, in theory, Skaggs or Heaney or Tropeano are 'injury-prone' when reality is that teams are way, way more willing to DL an arm these days.

It was an oblique last year -- so core muscles, some of that may have been due to focusing on rehabbing his arm but most likely it's just part of his not having pitched much the previous two years.

The last three years he's gone from 49, to 85, to 116 innings.    His ERA has gone from a high of 4.55 to 3.78 and his FIP 3.32.   He essentially pitched to his peripherals this year..   No arm injuries, so hopefully he tacks on another 40-60 innings next year.   

The one thing about Skaggs is he's noticeably gotten bigger since 2014 -- he's been putting in the time.... I doubt this off-season will be any different.

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was an oblique last year -- so core muscles, some of that may have been due to focusing on rehabbing his arm but most likely it's just part of his not having pitched much the previous two years.

The last three years he's gone from 49, to 85, to 116 innings.    His ERA has gone from a high of 4.55 to 3.78 and his FIP 3.32.   He essentially pitched to his peripherals this year..   No arm injuries, so hopefully he tacks on another 40-60 innings next year.   

The one thing about Skaggs is he's noticeably gotten bigger since 2014 -- he's been putting in the time.... I doubt this off-season will be any different.

He's definitely added some muscle, but I wonder if it came at the expense of some stretching/flexibility conditioning, leading to these more minor abductor/oblique issues.

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

He's definitely added some muscle, but I wonder if it came at the expense of some stretching/flexibility conditioning, leading to these more minor abductor/oblique issues.

I think that's part of the equation -- he's got to learn how to make the body work for him.   But again, not an arm injury and he pitched to what his talent would have you believe he would.  IMO he took a couple steps foward..   While those things were good to see, we are still waiting on that full season out of him.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, mulwin444 said:

Yeah, I think Eppler needs to target two SP...the obvious move is to sign someone but, man, not too many obvious choices.  If you eliminate guys that have dealt with/missed time due to injury and have a history pitching well you are left with maybe Keuchel and Corbin.

Lance Lynn has been ass this year...Wainwright, McCarthy, Shields, Estrada, and Happ are all 35+, injured, or done...Pomeranz, Eovaldi, and Harvey all look like 1-year deal projects that can't be counted on for 150-175 IP.

Maybe two trades could be in order...

This says it all about the rotation... 
Bridwell, Despaigne, Lamb, Cole, McGuire, Jim Johnson, Noe Ramirez, and J.C. Ramirez combined to make 17 starts (so far) in 2018. 
Aside from J.C. Ramirez, these guys were never supposed to be a part of the MLB rotation at all, and really, Bridwell and Lamb were the only ones in the AAA rotation who should've been expected to make a start at some point. 

Add Nick Tropeano to that mix and you get...
31 starts, 120.2 IP, 6.71 ERA, 135 hits allowed - 35 of them are HR - and 60 walks to 108 strikeouts. 

LAA '18 SP 'Depth': 31 GS, 120.2 IP, 135 H, 35 HRA, 60 BB, 108 K, 6.71 ERA, 1.61 WHIP
Marco Estrada '18: 25 GS, 130.1 IP, 137 H, 26 HRA, 45 BB, 95 K, 5.32 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
J.A. Happ in 2018: 28 GS, 160.2 IP, 137 H, 25 HRA, 44 BB, 173 K, 3.75 ERA, 1.13 WHIP
James Shields '18: 31 G, 186.2 IP, 175 H, 29 HRA, 70 BB, 142 K, 4.58 ERA, 1.31 WHIP
Lance Lynn in 2018: 28 G, 143.2 IP, 151 H, 14 HRA, 72 BB, 146 K, 5.01 ERA, 1.55 WHIP

As bad as Lance Lynn and James Shields have been, they would have been an improvement over the filler we've had to endure at the back of the rotation. Shields may top 200 innings this year. 

I'm not saying either should be targets, but I remember typing up similar assessments each of the last few offseasons. These guys aren't good or desirable, but three, four years straight, we wind up getting a full seasons' worth of starts from a combination of guys who have no business starting games for us. Guys who should either be in the pen, or not on the big-league club at all - meaning we're hurting the pen by taking them from it, or making roster moves to add guys who never should've had to be added. 

So, yeah, I wholly support two additions to the rotation for '19 - someone with some upside or frontline ability, and a second guy who has some history of surviving a full season, some durability - the dreaded Nolasco type - to absorb 160 innings on the back-end and prevent the carousel of disaster. If they suck and aren't needed midseason, cut them. It's when we're relying on relievers, or when those guys become our #2 or #3 starter that we're in trouble. Not when they're the fifth-best SP on the team.

I really think there's a direct correlation between the number of SPs a team uses, and their success. Obviously, the better the SP, the fewer they'll use, but even last year, the Angels only needed really 7 SP to make it through the year..and they were a .500 team, even with fairly mediocre SPs. The year prior? 74-88, with only 3 SP cracking 20 GS (Weaver and his 5.01 ERA led the way with 31) and another 13 SP handling the rest.

Stability in the rotation is a big, big thing, even if it's just average production.

[Angel Oracle]

Like I said in another thread, it's gotten really old to not even have FOUR pitchers get to even 162 innings, not done by the Halos since 2012. 

That HAS to change!

[Taylor]

It still bugs me that the thread title doesn't have a verb.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

It still bugs me that the thread title doesn't have a verb.

[Dick B Back]

Who?

[Erstad Grit]

11 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I would probably limit Skaggs to 25 starts (150 innings) tops next season.   He hasn't pitched over 117 innings at all levels combined in a season, since 2013.

I don't think Angels need to do anything to limit Skaggs' innings. Him pitching too many innings is not really a concern.