Amtrak train derails on highway bridge in Washington state

[Amazing Larry]

2 hours ago, gotbeer said:

That was the rear locomotive that didn't derail.  The one that was in front slid down a hill and ended up in the highway below.

http://komonews.com/news/local/photos-amtrak-train-plunges-off-tracks-closes-i-5-south-of-tacoma#photo-28

[Amazing Larry]

1 hour ago, mp170.6 said:

Technology to prevent overspeed derailments was already installed on the line.  The equipment was also installed on the Amtrak train but not yet functional. 

Positive Train Control I assume? I know SCRRA (Metrolink) installed that equipment after the head on crash in Chatsworth. 

[mp170.6]

9 minutes ago, LHalo said:

Positive Train Control I assume? I know SCRRA (Metrolink) installed that equipment after the head on crash in Chatsworth. 

Yes. 

I think if the Washington wreck turns out to be overspeed, PTC probably would have done its job, but that doesn't change the fact that it's garbage.  This is what happens when the government mandates such and such without enough time to pull it off. 

Nationwide, PTC is failing to work properly over a thousand times a day.  That's not a thousand accidents, it's usually a PTC computer/software issue forcing the crew to disable it entirely. 

[Amazing Larry]

Wow. I had no idea it performs so poorly. 

[mp170.6]

1 minute ago, LHalo said:

Wow. I had no idea it performs so poorly. 

Metrolink (SCRRA) likes to pat themselves on the back for PTC being in service, but that's more fantasy than anything. 

In many ways, they are the laughing stock of commuter railroads. 

[arch stanton]

Somebody needs to have that waiver shoved up the ass and sent down to bag bodies at the crash site

[Blarg]

And dig the gravesites. 

[mp170.6]

This is the best overhead photo I've seen.  Enlarge it to full size, if necessary.  Train was moving away from the camera.

That's the 30 curve I mentioned earlier.  The yellow sign, bottom right, denotes the beginning of the 30 MPH limit.  Notice the white retaining wall is partially demolished on the right side.  At the end of the block wall and fence is a pile of metal.  That was a railroad block signal (basically a traffic light) that was struck when the train began to derail.  It used to stand halfway between the track and the white wall.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the train was moving too fast to navigate that curve.  How and why that happened will be up to the NTSB to figure out. That said, I strongly suspect human error by the locomotive engineer. 

I just pray he doesn't kill himself.  Unlike plane crashes where everybody usually dies, the nightmare of December 18, 2017 will be on this guy's mind the rest of his life.  That's an excruciating burden to carry.

I've known of other guys in this same predicament.  Severe alcohol and substance abuse, suicide attempts, other mental illness, divorce, domestic violence, etc  seem to be common. 

 

[mp170.6]

Here I am talking to you guys about the derailment.   Then I get a late night message.  Jim Hamre, a guy I worked with about a decade ago, was killed in this crash. 

[mp170.6]

The NTSB has confirmed actual speed of 80 MPH.

[Amazing Larry]

Thanks for your insight @mp170.6 and sorry for the loss of your coworker. 

[gotbeer]

@mp170.6  That is a good angle on that photo and really does show the severity of the curve that the other photo's have failed to capture.  And since it was confirmed at 80, another case of human error.  Hopefully the conductor wasn't texting or making a facebook update on how the trip was going.

[Blarg]

Was this part of the new rails put in or the old rail junction? Seems pretty senseless to design a 30 mph turn into a newer high speed track segment. I can only imagine what a complete clusterfrack the train to nowhere is going to be here in California.

[Adam]

My buddy was set to take this train tomorrow

[Adam]

He's a ginger. So maybe

[mp170.6]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Was this part of the new rails put in or the old rail junction? Seems pretty senseless to design a 30 mph turn into a newer high speed track segment. I can only imagine what a complete clusterfrack the train to nowhere is going to be here in California.

That bridge over I-5 was reused from the days this track was freight only, hence the 30 MPH speed limit. 

A new bridge over the interstate (to eliminate the 30 MPH curve) would have cost them at least $100 million, so I don't blame them for recycling it.  

[Tank]

18 hours ago, mp170.6 said:

Yes. 

I think if the Washington wreck turns out to be overspeed, PTC probably would have done its job, but that doesn't change the fact that it's garbage.  This is what happens when the government mandates such and such without enough time to pull it off. 

Nationwide, PTC is failing to work properly over a thousand times a day.  That's not a thousand accidents, it's usually a PTC computer/software issue forcing the crew to disable it entirely. 

saw a quick interview with some lady from the NTSB who's on site already and said that if this train had PTC, the crash never would have happened. she was pretty darn emphatic about it, too.

[Thomas]

18 hours ago, mp170.6 said:

In many ways, they are the laughing stock of commuter railroads. 

I can't imagine it's worse than ours.
http://krqe.com/2017/09/06/rail-runner-facing-50-million-safety-system-deadline-possible-service-cuts/

[gotbeer]

1 hour ago, mp170.6 said:

That bridge over I-5 was reused from the days this track was freight only, hence the 30 MPH speed limit. 

A new bridge over the interstate (to eliminate the 30 MPH curve) would have cost them at least $100 million, so I don't blame them for recycling it.  

I wonder if they ever bothered to put new signs in stating it was a 30 mph speed limit.  A freight train, that is already probably going 30 mph, you can probably put the posted speeds at the turn.  A train going 80 mph, you probably want to have the speed warnings a few thousand feet before you hit the turn.  

[mp170.6]

3 hours ago, Tank said:

saw a quick interview with some lady from the NTSB who's on site already and said that if this train had PTC, the crash never would have happened. she was pretty darn emphatic about it, too.

The track and signal infrastructure was already equipped with PTC. 

The Amtrak locomotive (brand new) was equipped with PTC equipment -- but it was not yet activated.   Yesterday's outcome would have been different if everything that went wrong hadn't gone wrong until early-2018.  The PTC should have, in theory, prevented this. 

 

[mp170.6]

1 hour ago, gotbeer said:

I wonder if they ever bothered to put new signs in stating it was a 30 mph speed limit.  A freight train, that is already probably going 30 mph, you can probably put the posted speeds at the turn.  A train going 80 mph, you probably want to have the speed warnings a few thousand feet before you hit the turn.  

They do have advance speed warning signs, usually 2 miles in advance.  The signs are rotated 45 degrees like this. 

In any event, the signs are more of a courtesy -- the locomotive engineer is required to have memorized every speed limit -- whether the signs exist or not.  That's because many signs are missing for various reasons, tweaker metal thieves being one of the culprits.

 

[Amazing Larry]

 

[Amazing Larry]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-washington-crash-victims-20171219-story.html

[Tank]

20 hours ago, Thomas said:

I can't imagine it's worse than ours.
http://krqe.com/2017/09/06/rail-runner-facing-50-million-safety-system-deadline-possible-service-cuts/

well duh, just raise taxes on everybody! 

at least that's been the approach here by our esteemed governor and legislature.

[Thomas]

19 minutes ago, Tank said:

well duh, just raise taxes on everybody! 

at least that's been the approach here by our esteemed governor and legislature.

That'd raise at least $50. Maybe $60.