Gordon tied to Stanton?

[CanadianHalo]

33 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Adding Stanton, Gordon and LoMo though..,..then your offense is good enough and you can start worrying about pitching talent.

Just curious, what’s with your love affair with LoMo?

Minus last season the dude hasn’t done much. He’s almost like a C.J. Cron that walks more often 

[Second Base]

42 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Just curious, what’s with your love affair with LoMo?

Minus last season the dude hasn’t done much. He’s almost like a C.J. Cron that walks more often 

 I don't know, I suppose I take joy in recognizing a breakout performance when I see it. I think you're getting 30 DB 30 HR and a .350 OBP moving forward. 

I think that's Justin Upton level output at a fraction of the price. 

I was a big fan of Cron coming up. Power with the ability to make contact is a rarity. But he just hasn't been consistent, and he's had a few years to find himself and still hasn't.

[Dtwncbad]

9 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

 I don't know, I suppose I take joy in recognizing a breakout performance when I see it. I think you're getting 30 DB 30 HR and a .350 OBP moving forward. 

I think that's Justin Upton level output at a fraction of the price. 

I was a big fan of Cron coming up. Power with the ability to make contact is a rarity. But he just hasn't been consistent, and he's had a few years to find himself and still hasn't.

Yes I am tired of waiting for Cron.  No interest at all in spending another year waiting.  I will gladly move on to someone who looks more reliable or even a guy that is like Cron but at least has shown an ability to actually deliver that next level.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

I wrote an article a few years back analyzing the single offensive factor of World Series winning teams, abc the one number every team but one since 2002 is a team OBP of .340.

Every World Series winter of the last 15 years except one has had a team OBP north of .340. 

This doesn't just mean get a bunch of guys that get on base and you win, but it tells you how good your offense must be.

Trout, Simmons and Upton aren't enough. Not nearly enough. 

Adding Stanton, Gordon and LoMo though..,..then your offense is good enough and you can start worrying about pitching talent.

In truth, all we need really to add is Stanton + Gordon (or, ideally, Hernandez instead of Gordon, as he is both cheaper + younger).  Acquiring Stanton means we'd move Calhoun to 1B.   I'd be fine with Calhoun over LoMo, as they're both going to effectively cost the same over the new two years (2/25ish).  I don't think the Marlins would really want Calhoun in a trade anyway, as they're looking to obtain prospects and rebuild, not acquire guys towards the end of their contracts.

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

In truth, all we need really to add is Stanton + Gordon (or, ideally, Hernandez instead of Gordon, as he is both cheaper + younger).  Acquiring Stanton means we'd move Calhoun to 1B.   I'd be fine with Calhoun over LoMo, as they're both going to effectively cost the same over the new two years (2/25ish).  I don't think the Marlins would really want Calhoun in a trade anyway, as they're looking to obtain prospects and rebuild, not acquire guys towards the end of their contracts.

I agree with this, though it would make Calhoun more easily expendable if Eppler wants to add to the rotation.

I don't see the Angels getting Stanton, but for discussion's sake if they got him and Gordon they'd pretty much have to trade Calhoun and keep Cron at 1st. That would add about $27 million total in AAV, keeping them roughly $20 million under the threshold.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

I agree with this, though it would make Calhoun more easily expendable if Eppler wants to add to the rotation.

I don't see the Angels getting Stanton, but for discussion's sake if they got him and Gordon they'd pretty much have to trade Calhoun and keep Cron at 1st. That would add about $27 million total in AAV, keeping them roughly $20 million under the threshold.

Why would they have to trade Calhoun?  They could still keep him.  If we traded him and went with Cron at 1B, we'd have an extremely right-handed hitting lineup.  I know righty/lefty balance is overrated, but it'd nevertheless be good to have some kind of left-handed presence in the lineup.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Warfarin said:

Why would they have to trade Calhoun?  They could still keep him.  If we traded him and went with Cron at 1B, we'd have an extremely right-handed hitting lineup.  I know righty/lefty balance is overrated, but it'd nevertheless be good to have some kind of left-handed presence in the lineup.

Well, IMO if Stanton and Gordon were acquired, Eppler would do whatever he could to shed some payroll and possibly replace minor league depth. Kole's contract is a good one, but that's still 8 million they could easily cut. 

You could also see Valbuena at 1st and Cowart at 3rd. 

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Well, IMO if Stanton and Gordon were acquired, Eppler would do whatever he could to shed some payroll and possibly replace minor league depth. Kole's contract is a good one, but that's still 8 million they could easily cut. 

You could also see Valbuena at 1st and Cowart at 3rd. 

Good points, but I think even if we kept Calhoun, we'd still have some payroll space.  If we have Calhoun at 1B and Valbuena at 3B, then along with Gordon (or Hernandez), we'd have some lefty bats in the lineup to provide balance.

As for Cowart... I don't think I'd count his lefty bat as balance, as it would be generating very minimal offense. 

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Good points, but I think even if we kept Calhoun, we'd still have some payroll space.  If we have Calhoun at 1B and Valbuena at 3B, then along with Gordon (or Hernandez), we'd have some lefty bats in the lineup to provide balance.

As for Cowart... I don't think I'd count his lefty bat as balance, as it would be generating very minimal offense. 

I see Cowart as more of an addition to the pitching staff than to the offense. 

But obviously if Arte is fine with the payroll being that high, keeping Kole would be the better solution.

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I see Cowart as more of an addition to the pitching staff than to the offense. 

But obviously if Arte is fine with the payroll being that high, keeping Kole would be the better solution.

Cowart definitely is, but he's such a liability offensively that I don't know if his defensive contributions outweigh his offensive liabilities.

All that said, this is all probably moot, as I really don't consider us in play for Stanton.  I think after seeing how the Pujols + Hamilton deals turned out, Arte isn't going to want to jump head first into a 10 year contract.  Still, it's fun to postulate about all the possibilities.

[DMVol]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Darin Erstad won a GG at 1B in 2004 in 124 games.

 

7 hours ago, stormngt said:

If not mistaken Erstadt won a gg at first.  He was better than passable.

Only meant that he was not stuck at another position just to keep him in the lineup....poor choice of words...

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Cowart definitely is, but he's such a liability offensively that I don't know if his defensive contributions outweigh his offensive liabilities.

Which is why I think his niche could be as Utility IFer.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

21 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Didn’t Erstad get a passable GG at first base

From Wikipedia:

He was the only player in MLB history to have won Gold Gloves as an infielder and outfielder and first to win the award at different positions.

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I think there's just such a huge difference between Mathis and Maldonado though. Mathis was athletic, but not great defensively. He had an arm but couldn't put the ball on the bag, and the offense was simply laughable. He also had Napoli as an alternative who could actually be a dangerous bat, which created a negative narrative regarding playing time.

Comparing Mathis and Maldonado defensively is like comparing Aybar and Simmons. Sure....Aybar was decent, but he's not in the conversation for best ever like Simmons is. Not even close. 

Martin is ten times the catcher Jeff was. 

Well, i have to disagree calling aybar "decent". I know ehat youre saying, but aw.com gets over people quick after they leave.

But my point about mathis is hes been adored by his pitchers for years...no bat and has had a longer career than a lot that can hit...his defense and his "whatever" is obviously more than we see...

[red321]

22 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Well, i have to disagree calling aybar "decent". I know ehat youre saying, but aw.com gets over people quick after they leave.

But my point about mathis is hes been adored by his pitchers for years...no bat and has had a longer career than a lot that can hit...his defense and his "whatever" is obviously more than we see...

Yep...as much as the internet and a keyboard make us experts...it’s pretty clear he has something clubs value if he’s employed while jealous of the Mendoza line. 

[WeatherWonk]

Aybar was such an enigma. He seemed to make every great play, but would blow routine plays at the absolute worst times.

Simmons almost NEVER blows the routine plays AND he makes all the great ones, too. 

If the game is on the line, I want the ball hit to Simmons. With Aybar, I always held my breath if the ball was hit to him in those situations.

I think Simmons is the SS I've seen since Vizquel, whom I rate above Ozzie Smith. But Simmons has a stronger arm.

[ten ocho recon scout]

17 minutes ago, red321 said:

Yep...as much as the internet and a keyboard make us experts...it’s pretty clear he has something clubs value if he’s employed while jealous of the Mendoza line. 

Im with everyone else, i dont get it. But i know front offices are more than willing to keep paying him...and its because pitchers adore him...say what you want, but he brings something were never gonna understand.

[Lou]

15 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Aybar was such an enigma. He seemed to make every great play, but would blow routine plays at the absolute worst times.

Simmons almost NEVER blows the routine plays AND he makes all the great ones, too. 

If the game is on the line, I want the ball hit to Simmons. With Aybar, I always held my breath if the ball was hit to him in those situations.

I think Simmons is the SS I've seen since Vizquel, whom I rate above Ozzie Smith. But Simmons has a stronger arm.

 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

From Wikipedia:

He was the only player in MLB history to have won Gold Gloves as an infielder and outfielder and first to win the award at different positions.

Lol

obviously they were at different positions.

unless he got them for playing centerfirstfieldbase 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Lou

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Hey, I didn't write it.

[Lou]

Oh, I know. I had to read it twice to see if I had missed something.

Nope. 

[Lou]

Barry Bonds hit home runs for two different MLB teams.

He also hit home runs for two teams that played their home games in different cities. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Cowart definitely is, but he's such a liability offensively that I don't know if his defensive contributions outweigh his offensive liabilities.

All that said, this is all probably moot, as I really don't consider us in play for Stanton.  I think after seeing how the Pujols + Hamilton deals turned out, Arte isn't going to want to jump head first into a 10 year contract.  Still, it's fun to postulate about all the possibilities.

Out of curiosity (and im not calling you out), but what if cowart puts up a maldonado year on defense from 3B...but trout/stanton/upton with simmons and calhoun and maybe cron giving us a video game offense.. .is hit bat acceptable?

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

From Wikipedia:

He was the only player in MLB history to have won Gold Gloves as an infielder and outfielder and first to win the award at different positions.

Also (and im just assuming here) the 1st mlb player smart enough to punch people in the throat instead of the face where you break your ring and pinky knuckles.

Or maybe i just daydreamed him like that.

[Warfarin]

26 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Out of curiosity (and im not calling you out), but what if cowart puts up a maldonado year on defense from 3B...but trout/stanton/upton with simmons and calhoun and maybe cron giving us a video game offense.. .is hit bat acceptable?

That's a fantastic question and also depends on what kind of offense we are talking out.  Is he putting up an OPS of 600 at 3B?  Then to me, even if he is a God with the glove, I can't imagine him being worthy of a staring role.

That said, I would also say that a catcher has a far, far greater impact on the game defensively than a 3B does.  An elite defensive catcher can have an OPS of 600 and still be quite valuable, because they are literally impacting every single pitch defensively.  A 3B, on the other hand, will only have a handful of chances to impact a game defensively per game, give or take.  So given that, I would say I'd be far more tolerant of a lackluster offensive catcher than I would be of a lackluster offensive third basemen.