Hitters struggle after coming here.

[Angel Oracle]

Then what is it?

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Then what is it?

It certainly isn't Arte pretending to be a GM.  I mean seriously AO, please list all of the free agents signed  in the last 5 or 6 years that have performed at a high level.  As someone else posted there are very few.  

[gurn67]

2 hours ago, OregonLAA said:

I can't think of a single big contract that's ever worked out. Sometimes re-signs with the same team before the guy is in his 30's, but generally big signings do not work. Can anyone think of a big one that worked or looks like it will work through the whole contract?

Even the ones that the player performed to his expectations like Bonds & Vladdy, those teams still never won a World Series which, to me, is the ultimate goal of signing a guy to huge money. Of course, the Cubs won after giving Heyward $184,000,000, but that was more of a matter of they won despite of his horrible performance and they probably win last year if they allocated that money elsewhere.

[VariousCrap]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

So, the consensus seems to be a combination of previous crappy advance scouting and Arte feebly attempting to be a scout.

 

I definitely think Arte was behind some of the moves (Pujols and Hamilton for sure). 

[JustATroutFan]

5 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

I definitely think Arte was behind some of the moves (Pujols and Hamilton for sure). 

Hamilton was no doubt overpaid because if you look at his second half with Texas in 2012, he was just a solid hitter but no longer great. I thought he was just going to be a solid hitter but not great when he signed with the Angels. But they should have resign Greinke because if I remember correctly, Ervin and Haren both struggled in 2012, and CJ underperformed that year, and for most of his career with the Angels, outside of a very good 2013. They needed pitching and could not get it done.

[Erstad Grit]

All of those players were either past their prime or just had a fluke year like GMJ. 

Abreu was awesome here btw. 

[GrittyVeterans]

Look at Matt Joyce as an Angel vs the rest of his career (before and after). That's a little fishy for sure.

 

But some of the other guys is just basic decline or bad signings. 

[Billy_Ball]

Gary Gaetti - Good with Minnesota, sucked for the Angels, good with KC, good with STL.  

[Docwaukee]

I think people need to take a deep breath and think about how a team gets a player that was previously with another team.  

1.  you trade for a guy.  usually that guy is either a minor league who has no track record to begin with or they're in their prime years so they aren't likely to get better.  Simmons hadn't reached his prime when we acquired him. 

2.  you sign one as a free agent.  Most guys that become free agents are in their late 20's or early 30's.  So they are going to get worse from the second you sign them.  

 

you want a guy that's going to get better when he comes here?  

you better get lucky as hell or pry a 25 yo with room to improve from some idiot gm.  

[GrittyVeterans]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think people need to take a deep breath and think about how a team gets a player that was previously with another team.  

1.  you trade for a guy.  usually that guy is either a minor league who has no track record to begin with or they're in their prime years so they aren't likely to get better.  Simmons hadn't reached his prime when we acquired him. 

2.  you sign one as a free agent.  Most guys that become free agents are in their late 20's or early 30's.  So they are going to get worse from the second you sign them.  

 

you want a guy that's going to get better when he comes here?  

you better get lucky as hell or pry a 25 yo with room to improve from some idiot gm.  

Not necessarily get better when he comes here, but definitely not get way worse

Don't disagree with your thought process here though

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

All of those players were either past their prime or just had a fluke year like GMJ. 

Abreu was awesome here btw. 

For 2009, but not 2010 and beyond

[Erstad Grit]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

For 2009, but not 2010 and beyond

He was in his late 30's by then 

[gurn67]

By the way, this current squad is at, or near, the bottom of the AL offensively at every position except CF & SS.

[krAbs]

After last night, hitters seem to struggle when they visit us and see Heaney on the mound.

[Jeff Fletcher]

20 hours ago, AngelArcher said:

I think myself and most Angels' fans were hoping he found something and turned a corner last year and give us at least .750 OPS.

Coming off a career year to not even matching his meager average. Yeah, disappointing. 

 

When a guy is 29-30 years old, he is who he is. You can hope, but it's probably not realistic. 

[Blarg]

The one guy that I can recall that really changed his game at 29 was Jose Bautista. 

[Angel Oracle]

27 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The one guy that I can recall that really changed his game at 29 was Jose Bautista. 

Josh Donaldson didn't become a starting 3B until age 27.   The other old time player I remember not getting a starting SS gig until age 27, was Maury Wills with the Dogs in 1959. 

[stormngt]

18 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

All of those players were either past their prime or just had a fluke year like GMJ. 

Abreu was awesome here btw. 

You must not have been paying attention his second and third year.

[AngelArcher]

5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

When a guy is 29-30 years old, he is who he is. You can hope, but it's probably not realistic. 

Daniel Murphy agrees, as does Justin Smoak, Charlie Blackmon, Logan Morrison. I got tired of looking, but I'm sure there are more.

 

[AngelArcher]

And if you're looking for someone else who's done it for more than 1 year like Murphy, there's Justin Turner too. 

All those guys had big to huge jumps in production and all I was hoping for was a modest one for Maybin. You're probably right though Jeff, not realistic. 

 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, AngelArcher said:

And if you're looking for someone else who's done it for more than 1 year like Murphy, there's Justin Turner too. 

All those guys had big to huge jumps in production and all I was hoping for was a modest one for Maybin. You're probably right though Jeff, not realistic. 

 

 

Smoak's big jump is this year. Just like Maybin's was last year. Let's see what Smoak does next year. 

Same with Morrison. 

Turner didn't really get as much of a chance to play as Maybin has had. Maybin  has 2600+ PAs of being who he was before last year's jump. Turner had 926. I don't think you knew what he was. 

And Murphy had some very good seasons as a 26-28 year old. The only thing he added was some HRs. Blackmon is kind of the same. He was an All-Star at 27. Just added HRs at 29.

We're talking about someone breaking an established pattern at 29-30 and maintaining it. 

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Smoak's big jump is this year. Just like Maybin's was last year. Let's see what Smoak does next year. 

Same with Morrison. 

Turner didn't really get as much of a chance to play as Maybin has had. Maybin  has 2600+ PAs of being who he was before last year's jump. Turner had 926. I don't think you knew what he was. 

And Murphy had some very good seasons as a 26-28 year old. The only thing he added was some HRs. Blackmon is kind of the same. He was an All-Star at 27. Just added HRs at 29.

We're talking about someone breaking an established pattern at 29-30 and maintaining it. 

and on top of it, we're talking about 1 guy for every 3-4 teams.  At most.  It's definitely rare.  

Maybin rocked a .383 babip last year.  70 points above his career avg.  

[AngelArcher]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Smoak's big jump is this year. Just like Maybin's was last year. Let's see what Smoak does next year. 

Same with Morrison. 

Turner didn't really get as much of a chance to play as Maybin has had. Maybin  has 2600+ PAs of being who he was before last year's jump. Turner had 926. I don't think you knew what he was. 

And Murphy had some very good seasons as a 26-28 year old. The only thing he added was some HRs. Blackmon is kind of the same. He was an All-Star at 27. Just added HRs at 29.

We're talking about someone breaking an established pattern at 29-30 and maintaining it. 

No, Murphy is the same player minus the HRs. He started hitting better and got on base more often. LOL, at using "All-Star" for Blackmon. He had a better OPS at 26 and 28, but no All-Star? No, he is not the same player minus the HRs. He too started hitting better and got on base more often.

 

I know these are extreme examples and rare, but remember Maybin is coming off a career year and I wasn't even expecting him to match that.

 

So Maybin is a below .700 OPS player and Eppler and the fans should have know this because that's what he's always been? I don't recall having an opinion when the trade happen only having hope that he'll provide around .750 OPS. I do recall most being optimistic and happy with the trade.

[Inside Pitch]

On 8/28/2017 at 5:08 PM, Angel Oracle said:

Exactly my point, thank you

Angel Stadium can't be that bad for hitters.  Look at what Salmon, GA, and Glaus did here.

Except all the measurable data taken from every batter in every at bat in MLB says it is.    

All three of those guys you mentioned posted a better OPS away than at home as Angels-- in Salmon's case nearly 40 points better.  Glaus was kinda all over the place, he had one season where he was an absolute monster at home.

It's likely all three of them would have put up better numbers had they played in other parks.

[Lou]

3 hours ago, AngelArcher said:

often. LOL, at using "All-Star" for Blackmon. He had a better OPS at 26 and 28, but no All-Star? 

At 26, he only had 246 ABs. The following year was his first as a full-time player. 

His OPS+ was higher at 27 than 28

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lou