You can buy wins

[Docwaukee]

Of the top 13 payrolls, there is only one team that isn't either a division leader, in a wild card slot, or within at least 2 games of a wild card slot.  Yes, that one team is our very own halos.  

There are 13 teams that fit the criteria above.  The only one not in the top 13 in payroll is Cleveland (22nd).  

The Astros have the lowest payroll of any team above .500.  

My point is that spending isn't the devil.  You are never going to get it 100% right, but free agency is a necessary evil.  

 

 

 

[Blarg]

Phillies had the distinction of having one if the highest payrolls and worst teams for four season straight. This season they sluffed off a lot of money but are no better. 

[tdawg87]

But if Cleveland wins the WS then, well, you know.

[Billy_Ball]

 

[ABC]

sell, arte.

[CaliAngel]

Angels: "Throwing good money after bad" Since 2011

[Stradling]

41 minutes ago, CaliAngel said:

Angels: "Throwing good money after bad" Since 2011

If you ask some fans they'll tell you that you're off by almost 30 years. 

[Angelsjunky]

Too bad there's nothing much to spend money on this offseason: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html

I suppose if Cespedes opts out, the Angels could make a big splash and grab him. But is Arte going to spend that kind of money on a 31-year old? What will Cespedes get, 6/$150M?

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Too bad there's nothing much to spend money on this offseason: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html

I suppose if Cespedes opts out, the Angels could make a big splash and grab him. But is Arte going to spend that kind of money on a 31-year old? What will Cespedes get, 6/$150M?

It doesn't always require a big splash.  How about just having a capable player in LF and at 2b to counter the combined -1.0 WAR those two positions have given us for the year (LF -0.8 ranked 27th, and 2b -0.2, ranked 29th)?  

[Stradling]

Yep, how bout someone that when you look at them you say, that is an everyday major league left fielder, or 2nd baseman.  

[Ohtaniland]

Arte spent a ton of money the past 5 seasons but netted less wins and playoff appearances than the previous 5 seasons. Arte likes to spend but he's been a pretty bad shopper.

 

[Angelsjunky]

So why not Jefry Marte in LF and Kaleb Cowart at 2B? Marte's put together above average offense and passable defense in 73 games. Cowart needs a longer look, but if he shows any signs of learning to hit at the major league level, he'd be a cheap solid option at 2B.

Now if you want to replace those guys and leave them on the bench, then there are a few choices, but they're expensive: Cespedes and Saunders for LF, and Walker for 2B. If you sign one of the LFers and Walker, all of a sudden the Angels have a pretty good lineup. But all are already in their 30s, and unless Eppler thinks he can field a contender in 2017-18, which would mean spending big money, then I don't see them going for it.

To put that another way, either the Angels will penny-pinch and play Marte and Cowart, or maybe sign more filler, OR they will go big and sign one of Cespedes/Saunders and also Walker, plus a starter or two (e.g. Hellickson, Fister, Cashner, etc).

[Stradling]

Marte is not a left fielder.  I would put Escobar in left, if he isn't traded, Cowart and Marte at 3rd and sign a 2nd baseman.

[Angel Oracle]

Is it for sure that Marte could never play LF effectively enough?

[Second Base]

I think my biggest issue is that Arte chose to spend like he was a big market team and over-stepped his bounds when he signed Josh Hamilton. Then when it blew up in his face, Moreno decided the time had come to scale back spending.

What he should have done was spend to fix his mistake in LF and acquire a good 2B last year when we were in our window of contention. Then across the next 4 years he'd have a competitive team without increasing payroll and accumulating prospects. Then once guys like Richards, Calhoun and Cron hit FA, he could replace them with inexpensive high profile prospects and reap the competitive balance picks and lower payroll in the process.

But by refusing to spend in 2015, Arte effectively eliminated 2015, 16 and 17 as a window of competing and made 2018 the very soonest we'd be a playoff team again. 

Had he spent on a LF and 2B in 2015, we're looking at making the playoffs in 2015 and 2017 (not much would've saved us in 2016) and we'd be better positioned to cut payroll and compete in 2018 and beyond.

Basically there's a time and a place to spend in free agency. 2015/2016 was the time and place. The winter of 2016/2017 isn't.

This team needs to see if Cowart, Cron and Marte can develop into anything special as well as getting Meyer, Banuelos and Smith's feet wet, along with restocking the pen with Middleton, Valdez, Alcantara and Bedrosian.

Spending on Reddick to play on an injured and losing team in 2017 is a bad idea.

[Second Base]

Also, something tells me Arte is going to royally screw this up by spending this winter and not spending next winter when guys like Donaldson, Machado, Harper and Price hit FA.

[ettin]

4 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Also, something tells me Arte is going to royally screw this up by spending this winter and not spending next winter when guys like Donaldson, Machado, Harper and Price hit FA.

That's the following offseason Scotty FYI.

[ettin]

Unless Marte and Cowart make greater strides towards hitting RHP they will never be more than platoon options, pinch hitters, or in the case of Cowart a utility/defensive replacement guy. I sincerely hope they do but realistically they have to perform against right-handed pitching.

[Ohtaniland]

8 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Also, something tells me Arte is going to royally screw this up by spending this winter and not spending next winter when guys like Donaldson, Machado, Harper and Price hit FA.

Arte has already gone "all in" and that failed. Can you imagine what Arte is thinking when he looks back at 2012-2016 and reflects on all of the playoff revenue that never showed up. 

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

To put that another way, either the Angels will penny-pinch and play Marte and Cowart, or maybe sign more filler, OR they will go big and sign one of Cespedes/Saunders and also Walker, plus a starter or two (e.g. Hellickson, Fister, Cashner, etc).

^^^ this sums it up nicely. They really can go any direction this year, and for the most part, I would be fine with any of those options. I'd only really worry if they either 1) dealt away a lot of prospects for older, expensive players or 2) signed multiple older, expensive players. There is no reason to subtract from this farm* this offseason or to immediately replace the salary being shed this offseason between Weaver and Wilson and next between Hamilton, Escobar, and Street.

I would be surprised if they didn't spend some money this offseason - either one big expense or multiple mid/low - as we are still a team that has the budget to afford expenses like that, and because regardless of what *we* think, Arte and Eppler will want to at least prop up the idea that the team will compete to both the casual fans and to offer some reinforcement to the players. So long as they don't go overboard with multiple, expensive, long contracts on questionable  players, I think it's within the realm of reason and acceptability.

Cheap, short-commitment vets can generally be flipped at deadlines without too much problem. 

I think years, not money, is the biggest obstacle with players these days.

[totdprods]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Too bad there's nothing much to spend money on this offseason: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html

I suppose if Cespedes opts out, the Angels could make a big splash and grab him. But is Arte going to spend that kind of money on a 31-year old? What will Cespedes get, 6/$150M?

I'm not expecting anymore big contracts until at least 2017 offseason, likely 2018.

There are numerous players available that would/should be an upgrade on this team, and most would be affordable given the $40m/yr we're shedding this offseason. With the number of holes we have, I hope they address at least one of these needs, in no order, via FA, but don't want them trying to address everything through FA.

• anyone who is actually a major-league outfielder - from Carlos Gomez, Peter Bourjos, Rajai Davis or Michael Saunders or Josh Reddick all the way up to Ian Desmond or Yoenis Cespedes. If they want to put Marte full-time in LF, at least sign a capable, actually MLB-tested cheap player like Bourjos for 4th OF.
• a second baseman. I don't think Escobar is moving. They've had several opportunities to do so already; when they acquired him, when Simmons was injured, and as Marte/Cowart developed. It isn't happening, and I'm not expecting him to be dealt either.
• a starting pitcher, more specifically, a short commitment healthy vet who has a track record of durability and eating up innings
• a vet reliever. We may have already addressed this in Bailey, but there are several vet relievers, mostly right-handed, who, much like the above SP, would be interesting one one (maybe two) year deals to offer some vet stability while we develop some young arms this year 

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, CALZONE said:

Arte has already gone "all in" and that failed. Can you imagine what Arte is thinking when he looks back at 2012-2016 and reflects on all of the playoff revenue that never showed up. 

Except Arte didn't go "all in" in 2015 or 2016, he did however spend a lot of money.  

[VariousCrap]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

Marte is not a left fielder.  I would put Escobar in left, if he isn't traded, Cowart and Marte at 3rd and sign a 2nd baseman.

 

Jeff Fletcher said not to be surprised if the Angels have Marte in LF for winter ball to have him ready for 2017.

 

[Stradling]

He's looked pretty bad out there.  I have no problem with him going to the winter leagues to work on it. 

[VariousCrap]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

a vet reliever. We may have already addressed this in Bailey, but there are several vet relievers, mostly right-handed, who, much like the above SP, would be interesting one one (maybe two) year deals to offer some vet stability while we develop some young arms this year 

Bailey is a free agent.