Heyman: Execs have no idea why Scioscia still employed

[ten ocho recon scout]

As far as sabr inclined GMs wondering why sosh is still there, wouldn't that fall more on scouting than managing? Regardless of what stats say, sosh or any other manager would have to go with whatever the toster is to fill out his roster. If we draft, trade, or sign guys who are old school vs new school, how is that on the manager? 

Dipoto used all his sabr theory shaping the team over 4 years, how did sosh screw up his vision? Not daying that to bash dipo or excuse sosh, but its not ignoring fangraphs that put us where were at

[maximus p]

18 hours ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Isn't pythag based solely on run differential, so it's easily skewed by lopsided wins and losses? Also, we're 6 games worse than our pythag this year. 

Also, I have read pythag is plus or minus 8 or something like that?

[Jeff Fletcher]

Tonight in the 8th inning did you notice how hard Jett Bandy ran on a single? He had to slam on the brakes because he wanted a double. 

And did you notice in that same inning Kole Calhoun working a walk with 2 guys on, to load the bases for Trout?

They were down 7-0.

i notice this stuff all the time because my particular interest is always in getting the game over as soon as possible once the outcome is decided. So when some guy draws a 10-pitch walk at the end of a blowout (Andrelton Simmons on Saturday) I notice that stuff. 

It happens all the damn time. Trust me on this. 

To me, that is a team that still cares, is still trying and has not "tuned out" it's manager. They know Scioscia won't put up with that crap. 

Carry on....

[tdawg87]

But Jeffy....

[Inside Pitch]

 

This Fletcher fellow has a knack for narrative busting.

[Sciosciapath]

8 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

My conspiracy theory is that Scioscia is the head of a mafia that controls Arte and has him in fear of his life.  It's the only way to explain how he got a 10 year contract and is the highest paid manager.

Scioscia Illuminati confirmed.

He also runs Disney.

Lady and the Tramp pasta kissing scene? Scioscia.

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

This Fletcher fellow has a knack for narrative busting.

Fleshlights have a knack for busting lots of things.

Nuts, for one.

[Sciosciapath]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Fleshlights have a knack for busting lots of things.

Nuts, for one.

are you rubbing ice cream all over yourself and your giant head? talk dirty tdawg

[tdawg87]

I'm never not doing that.

[Blarg]

Some are so bitter they act like they are. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

21 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Some are so bitter they act like they are. 

Thats freakin gold. Lol

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

Some are so bitter they act like they are. 

I call it ignorance.  But what do I know, I just have my head up Scioscia's ass, despite what I actually say.  

[Slegnaac]

On 8/18/2016 at 4:26 PM, WallyWorld said:

I think that's about 90% of it right there. The org is trying to reduce a severely bloated payroll, and most likely isn't going to contend in the next year or two anyway. Why pay Mike Scioscia millions of dollars to NOT manage the team? Might as well wait it out another 2 years and hope Arte is smart enough to never give another manager that kind of contract again.

I'll add that with the way things are going this year, the situation is ripe for players to revolt and for things to get truly ugly. That hasn't happened and we haven't heard or seen of anything, so I have to think the players are still OK with Mike. Again, no point in changing now.

This

2018 is probably our next real shot at having a post season capable roster. That is Scioscia's last year on the current deal.  If he does well you can go the Tommy Lasorda route and give him a 1 year deal.  Or you look for someone else to take the lead for 2019 season. 

[FabulousFabregas]

9 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Tonight in the 8th inning did you notice how hard Jett Bandy ran on a single? He had to slam on the brakes because he wanted a double. 

And did you notice in that same inning Kole Calhoun working a walk with 2 guys on, to load the bases for Trout?

They were down 7-0.

i notice this stuff all the time because my particular interest is always in getting the game over as soon as possible once the outcome is decided. So when some guy draws a 10-pitch walk at the end of a blowout (Andrelton Simmons on Saturday) I notice that stuff. 

It happens all the damn time. Trust me on this. 

To me, that is a team that still cares, is still trying and has not "tuned out" it's manager. They know Scioscia won't put up with that crap. 

Carry on....

The events of a meaningless game like last night mean nothing.  Games in Williamsport have more stakes than in Anaheim right now.  Like I've mentioned on here, The Fat Man has had a terrible track record in this decade of awful bullpen management and sticking with veterans too long when the games actually matter and we have competitive teams.  These techniques without a doubt cost us a trip to the playoffs in 2012, and I believe last year as well.  Hitting Josh Hamilton cleanup in the playoffs in 2014 was inexcusable as well.  Going back to 2011, his hard on for Mathis and hatred for Napoli may have cost us a playoff appearance that year as well.

He needs to be fired so that if we actually do have a contending team in the next couple of years, we don't have a manager with antiquated techniques and awful judgment.  Scioscia was once a good manager, but his time here should have run its course years ago.

[totdprods]

One of the biggest things to bear in mind whenever Scioscia leaves is who manages next? It's not like it's an easy or assured process to drop in a new manager and know there will be success or a positive change throughout the organization. 

It could blow up just as badly as Dipoto did. He fit the mold of who most of us wanted as a GM, and here we are a year later, with many of us, even his supporters, looking back at his time with markedly less favorable views.

I'd welcome a managerial change when it comes - 17 years already has been sufficient - but I'm not going to be nearly as optimistic or excited as most are going to be.

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, FabulousFabregas said:

The events of a meaningless game like last night mean nothing.  Games in Williamsport have more stakes than in Anaheim right now.  Like I've mentioned on here, The Fat Man has had a terrible track record in this decade of awful bullpen management and sticking with veterans too long when the games actually matter and we have competitive teams.  These techniques without a doubt cost us a trip to the playoffs in 2012, and I believe last year as well.  Hitting Josh Hamilton cleanup in the playoffs in 2014 was inexcusable as well.  Going back to 2011, his hard on for Mathis and hatred for Napoli may have cost us a playoff appearance that year as well.

He needs to be fired so that if we actually do have a contending team in the next couple of years, we don't have a manager with antiquated techniques and awful judgment.  Scioscia was once a good manager, but his time here should have run its course years ago.

I could pick apart this post but I'll just say this.  Anyone who refers to him as "The Fat Man" is probably incapable of being impartial.  Secondly, Hamilton batted 7th in the playoffs, so that's kind of different.  Lastly, I posted an article on here last week that said all fans think their manager is bad at bullpen management and while I don't know how often he's finished this high, in 2015 he was 3rd baseball in bullpen management.  My guess is most years he's in the top third, hopefully guys like @Inside Pitch has links to those.  

[DMVol]

15 minutes ago, totdprods said:

....I'd welcome a managerial change when it comes - 17 years already has been sufficient - but I'm not going to be nearly as optimistic or excited as most are going to be.

I don't know that I would welcome a change but I would understand.....I think it would likely be a much better move for Scioscia than the Angels....I think a fresh start with a team that is ready to win (Detroit? Mets?... maybe even Atlanta) would be a good move for Scioscia.....but hiring a new manager is always a crap shoot and expecting a new manager to do much with the garbage we have right now is silly....

[Stradling]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-playoffs-bullpen-managers-mike-matheny-joe-girardi/

 

heres the article, from 2012-2015 he ranks 7th overall in bullpen management.  So I'd rank that as above average, at the very least not "awful". By the way I was just as surprised as everyone else on this one.  

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I don't know that I would welcome a change but I would understand.....I think it would likely be a much better move for Scioscia than the Angels....I think a fresh start with a team that is ready to win (Detroit? Mets?... maybe even Atlanta) would be a good move for Scioscia.....but hiring a new manager is always a crap shoot and expecting a new manager to do much with the garbage we have right now is silly....

Welcome may be a bit strong of a word, it'd have to be dependent on the org at the time, and the replacement. Understand is a better choice of words. 

 

[Dick B Back]

31 minutes ago, FabulousFabregas said:

The events of a meaningless game like last night mean nothing.  Games in Williamsport have more stakes than in Anaheim right now.  Like I've mentioned on here, The Fat Man has had a terrible track record in this decade of awful bullpen management and sticking with veterans too long when the games actually matter and we have competitive teams.  These techniques without a doubt cost us a trip to the playoffs in 2012, and I believe last year as well.  Hitting Josh Hamilton cleanup in the playoffs in 2014 was inexcusable as well.  Going back to 2011, his hard on for Mathis and hatred for Napoli may have cost us a playoff appearance that year as well.

He needs to be fired so that if we actually do have a contending team in the next couple of years, we don't have a manager with antiquated techniques and awful judgment.  Scioscia was once a good manager, but his time here should have run its course years ago.

At least The Fat Man is capitalized. Good job!

[Stradling]

Hey @FabulousFabregas when was the last time he stuck with a veteran too long when we had a better young option available in your eyes?

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, FabulousFabregas said:

The events of a meaningless game like last night mean nothing.

You missed the point. The point is that, although it's meaningless in the sense that the Angels have no chance to make the playoffs, it's still a Major League Baseball game that counts, players are still getting paid, fans are still paying to watch and they are still handling themselves like professionals. They aren't mailing it in or worrying about their own stats. (Wouldn't it have been better for Kole Calhoun if he'd just swung the bat and tried to pick up a hit and an RBI for himself, instead of walking?)

They are still playing the game right and that's a reflection mostly on them but also on the manager. 

The reason they stink is not because of Scioscia or any intangible "message" that people like to throw around. 

Its because all of their best pitchers are hurt. Period. 

[FabulousFabregas]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Hey @FabulousFabregas when was the last time he stuck with a veteran too long when we had a better young option available in your eyes?

Josh Hamilton in the 2014 ALDS.

[Jeff Fletcher]

I believe Collin Cowgill and Efren Navarro were the alternatives. 

[FabulousFabregas]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You missed the point. The point is that, although it's meaningless in the sense that the Angels have no chance to make the playoffs, it's still a Major League Baseball game that counts, players are still getting paid, fans are still paying to watch and they are still handling themselves like professionals. They aren't mailing it in or worrying about their own stats. (Wouldn't it have been better for Kole Calhoun if he'd just swung the bat and tried to pick up a hit and an RBI for himself, instead of walking?)

They are still playing the game right and that's a reflection mostly on them but also on the manager. 

The reason they stink is not because of Scioscia or any intangible "message" that people like to throw around. 

Its because all of their best pitchers are hurt. Period. 

The Angels have made the playoffs one time in the last 7 years.  That is completely unacceptable.