The Failo Mentality

[Erstad Grit]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Remember the 90s, Stradling? Actually, remember 1987 - 2001? It was a dark era - only one season over 85 wins, and that was 1989 when they still finished third and eight games behind. The only year that felt really hopeful was 1995, and we know how that ended.

So my counter-question to your post, which I liked and jive with, is how did you survive the 90s? What did yo live for? Year after year, and no real hope of contention. I mean, there was always hope, but not really.

The org is in bad shape. But it isn't all bad. They've still got Trout, and some solid supporting players in Escobar and Calhoun and...well, Escobar and Calhoun. Maybe, just maybe, Richards and Heaney come back, maybe Chacin and theoretically Lincecum pitch well enough to tide us over until then. Maybe the Angels draft well this year, and the farm starts turning around. Maybe Eppler puts more money towards international scouting.

Maybe.

There's probably more hope now than there was in the 90s, but its still darker than 2002-09, and it also seems like we're past the point of 2010-14, when it looked like we were only a tweak or two away from winning big, and that the farm could turn around - and it almost happened in 2014. But last year and a half has been just brutal. We're at a low point. So hopefully things will start looking up.

Hopefully.

Honestly I've asked many of the "failos" about the 90's and the usual answer is they were not fans in the 90's. 

In other words, there is a large Angel fandom which started mid/late 2002 and they just aren't used to not being perineal world series threats. 

[Oz27]

Just now, Erstad Grit said:

Honestly I've asked many of the "failos" about the 90's and the usual answer is they were not fans in the 90's. 

In other words, there is a large Angel fandom which started mid/late 2002 and they just aren't used to not being perineal world series threats. 

You have to understand though, great Superfan, that not everyone can be as perfect in their fandom as you are.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Erstad Grit said:

Honestly I've asked many of the "failos" about the 90's and the usual answer is they were not fans in the 90's. 

In other words, there is a large Angel fandom which started mid/late 2002 and they just aren't used to not being perineal world series threats. 

Oh god

[cez]

"failos" is a portmanteau

 

[WallyWorld]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Which is exactly why I'm asking for clarification.  If that makes me arrogant so be it.  I think your opinion of me asking these questions is based on us disagreeing on subjects in the past, or you just think I'm a dick.  

"Clarification" - yes, that is arrogant, having nothing to do with baseball or this board. Do you ask a transgender person to clarify why they're that way, or a minority to clarify why they feel persecuted? People have different worldviews, different experiences, etc - it's not all going to make sense to you and ffs it doesn't have to. Just accept that everyone is different. Sorry to get up on my own soapbox but the need to have people's preferences makes sense to YOU really rubs me the wrong way.

as for you being a dick, I don't know you so I wouldn't think that (though notti is certainly a dick, lol). But I suspect from your posts that you're an earnest guy and that you dislike cynicism. No harm in that. But I think you too often confuse pragmatism/realism with cynicism, when reality isn't to your liking. Just my take based on your posts on here.

[Quinlanforthewin]

19 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

There were plenty of fans here that waved the white flag before the season started. 

 

 

 

Well of course.  It's just called being realistic when looking at the roster even before the injuries.  Do you think Browns fans are expecting the playoffs this year? Of course not.  

I think there's probably a difference between being a failo in person and on the board.  I'm definitely a failo on here because it's easier to come up with critical and negative takes and gives me a place to vent. I'm trying to keep it balanced but of course it's gonna lean negative given the state of the organization.  

And enough with being a superfan referencing the 90s.  It's all about expectations.  The 90s teams had none.  The teams since 2002 have had expectations so of course the dismal run lately leads to disappointment.  I mean we have the best player in baseball and we're wasting his prime by surrounding him with scraps. That didn't happen in the 90s.  And yes I was a fan. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

There is nothing wrong doubting the teams ability to be successful.  However don't you agree that it is irrational when you get angry when the team doesn't give up and try to improve the team like trying to sign Lincecum.  Or complain when they win and "screw up their position".  I have seen several make similar comments in the past. 

I am not at all in favor of tanking to try to improve our draft position. Nothing is more uncertain than a baseball "prospect". History is rife with "can't miss" prospects who did. This organization has had several.

[Stradling]

@WallyWorld Would you and your bitchy little panties be less offended if I changed by word from clarification to understanding?  I'm sorry I've persecuted you by asking a forum a question.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by Stradling

[arch stanton]

Of course everyone has different reasons for following a team. I just think it's odd and pointless to base your enjoyment of a 162 game regular season on whether you deem their chances of winning the post season tournament to be acceptably good.

And I know plenty of people who love to nitpick and criticize every move another person makes regardless of first hand knowledge of the big picture. They're usually called ex-wives.

[Oz27]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

@WallyWorld Would you and your bitchy little panties be less offended if I changed by word from clarification to understanding?  I'm sorry I've persecuted you by asking a forum a question.  

Nice touch, really classy stuff.

[WallyWorld]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

@WallyWorld Would you and your bitchy little panties be less offended if I changed by word from clarification to understanding?  I'm sorry I've persecuted you by asking a forum a question.  

If I didn't think you were a dick before . . .

[stormngt]

42 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

I am not at all in favor of tanking to try to improve our draft position. Nothing is more uncertain than a baseball "prospect". History is rife with "can't miss" prospects who did. This organization has had several.

Wasn't really referring to you.

[Brent Maguire]

Each fan has their own way of reacting. Neither way is necessarily wrong although I definitely consider myself an optimist. Winning is fun and I'd much rather watch a good team than bad team but I also watch baseball for entertainment. I'll definitely vent when it's necessary and I've found myself venting more this year with the stupid back luck involved but I'm still enjoying the team just as I always do.

 

[WallyWorld]

angelswin.com, shaming the non-believers one thread a time 

[Stradling]

I'm sorry you feel shamed.  Sorry you are sharing opinions that others have an issue with.  Weird how you have an issue with it considering you're calling me out because you perceive me as doing exactly that.  

By the way the beauty of this place is everyone is entitled to share their thoughts. 

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Oz27 said:

You have to understand though, great Superfan, that not everyone can be as perfect in their fandom as you are.

Why are you interpreting my statement as pejorative?  If a fan began liking the Angels late 2002 it doesn't make them a lesser fan. However it might explain why that fan has a higher, perhaps unrealistic, expectation of the Angels rather than a fan who used to consider a over .500 season a success. 

A newer fan hasn't experienced a long stretch of the Angels not being elite. 

[WallyWorld]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I'm sorry you feel shamed.  Sorry you are sharing opinions that others have an issue with.  Weird how you have an issue with it considering you're calling me out because you perceive me as doing exactly that.  

By the way the beauty of this place is everyone is entitled to share their thoughts. 

Amen to that last part, brother.

and no I don't personally feel shamed. After all this is a baseball fan board and I'm a grown man, but that sure seems to be the intent of a lot of the posters on here, unfortunately.

why don't we all just enjoy the team and the game of baseball in our own way, yeah?

[tomsred]

I've followed the Angels for almost 40 years, so I can lay claim that I've seen all kinds of weirdness, good and bad decisions (as judged by hindsight), under and over achievements by this organization.  I love the winning as much as anyone, but like Straddling I've learned to temper my expectations under the realization that the baseball season is far too long not to produce plenty of disappointments even in the good years.  I've learned to like the story of each season, the personalities of the players, and the continual evolution of the organization and the game.  Unlike some of you, I follow other teams somewhat, but it's not anywhere with the same amount of interest because I identify with Angel players in their struggles, achievements and quest to win each and every game.  I probably spend far less time criticizing the organization, coaches and players than many of you because for the most part we have had some wonderful players (personality wise) on Angels teams over the years.  I liked it a lot when Arte decided to dump Hamilton, and when Scioscia had enough of Guillen.  Yes, dumb decisions to take them on in the first place, but I would rather see quality personalities over winning in many cases.  When I think of the history of Angels baseball I think of the individual players and coaches, not necessarily whether they have won or lost.

I do think the criticism gets a bit out of hand, but I do understand what Chuck pointed out, that some people just need to vent.  My personality is such that I would rather just absorb it and move on.  That is something I actually admire about Scioscia, he keeps his public emotions in check (not so much as a player, but as a manager).  If one were to take most of the criticisms too seriously about this organization, you would think that the organization has no common sense, has nefarious goals, and is just out to screw the fans over.  I don't believe any of that crap.  Far too often negative fan reaction is rooted in facts that turn out to be just not true,  and left unchecked small groups of fans start believing that everyone here shares their negativity, when that is not the case.

Personally I enjoy being on the positive side of things, and debating baseball issues with other posters.  I am sure many of you enjoy just the opposite approach.  That makes for good and fun discussion.  So continue to point out why this organization is so screwed up, and the players are so weak - and I will continue to tell you what I like about what we have.  My only message to the critics though is that please don't assume that because I don't comment on your opinion that I agree, or that the entire board agrees.  I have never liked posts that start out "we all agree that (so and so) is doing a terrible job, and should be traded, let go or fired....".  First of all not every one agrees, only a very small minority who want to commiserate with one another on this message board, which is a very small minority of the overall Angels fan base.  And I don't think we need to elevate ourselves to a level that's higher than other fan bases that do not post here.  Many people hate computers, message boards, strong opinions, and emotional outbursts.  

[mulwin444]

Don't forget some enjoy the misery a season like this brings for them...they get to wallow a bit...like Scrooge McDuck swimming through a vault full of sadness coins.  Injuries piling up, barren farm, aging starters, a team-bred superstar they can envision deserting them...oh the ennui...it's like Christmas.

It's a game, meant for entertainment, hopefully people don't let it burn a hole in their stomach

[kevinb]

Honestly baseball is dying for me right now a little inside each day. For what its worth I was lucky enough to have season tickets growing up for a couple years when the Angels were awful. Then hard times hit and we just didn't have the time or money to spend on them. But then again in my early 20s up until 2 years ago I was lucky enough to have season tickets again, even moving into the diamond club which was absolutely amazing. Seeing Trout Weaver and all the great Angels play every day. The Angels drive me crazy, what they did with the Pujols, then Hamilton thing. How they treated Guerrero at the end, what they did to Kendrys at the end (medical staff idiots). I have been to 3 games in the last 1 plus and the fun is just completely out of the team. No one looks like they are having fun anymore. Even the fans, I don't know the numbers but I went to the second game of the season and then a week after that and I am not kidding you there might have been 20k fans if the Angels were lucky and hell they were playing the Cubs one of the games. I don't know whats wrong with baseball, or whats wrong with the Angels whether its lack of management, lack of any sort of team, lack of any sort of excitement, but live baseball used to be a blast for me to go to. It sucks but I went and it was just like meh can the game end already. I wish the Angels would turn it around, you have one of the best players on the planet in Trout and then you have a bunch of just ehh players. I wish the Angels could just wipe the slate clean start over with Trout and get some energy back. Its sad but I just don't see that happening anytime soon. 

[tomsred]

32 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Don't forget some enjoy the misery a season like this brings for them...they get to wallow a bit...like Scrooge McDuck swimming through a vault full of sadness coins.  Injuries piling up, barren farm, aging starters, a team-bred superstar they can envision deserting them...oh the ennui...it's like Christmas.

It's a game, meant for entertainment, hopefully people don't let it burn a hole in their stomach

Exactly, there is a whole bundle of much more important things to stew over in life; like death, disease, accidents, war, poverty, murder, riots, plague, crime and cheaters just to name a few.  This stuff is supposed to take your mind off of that kind of bad stuff.

[arch stanton]

I think it's time for a group recital of the serenity prayer then we all just try to enjoy kicking some more Dodger ass.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, WallyWorld said:

and while I'll take you at your word as to the intent of your original post, I hope you can see how that come come off like baiting.

People tend to see in others what they know they are guilty of themselves...   So, there is that.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Remember the 90s, Stradling? Actually, remember 1987 - 2001? It was a dark era - only one season over 85 wins, and that was 1989 when they still finished third and eight games behind. The only year that felt really hopeful was 1995, and we know how that ended.

I'm not Strad but the 90s was an interesting time for me as a fan...  I wasn't that far removed from playing college ball, I was still very much one of those anti-stat old school types that felt his having played in thousands of games from little league through Div1 ball gave me a greater insight into the game than it really did.  So as the Angels went about stinking I went looking for reasons to be hopeful.  That led to following guys I had played against in college and how they were progressing... that in turn ultimately led to following minor league baseball.   Seeing guys who I knew had all the physical tools to be something utterly fail, I started looking for reasons why... which led to reading a lot more about the game and ultimately this guy named Bill James.

The best part of being an Angels fan in the 90s for me was watching the farm system start to produce, and how certain statistical indicators lined up as predictors...  Learning to spot the difference between George Arias and Troy Glaus and playing in places like Midland .vs Cedar Rapids also cut down on the amount of letdown -- that's helped me survive ever since, it's also why this is probably a harder time for me than even the 90s... As bad as the 90s were -- the farm system was a lot of fun to track.  At one point between 1985 and 1999 the Angels had put more people into MLB than any team in baseball -- not many star players but a lot of solid everyday players you could build around.  

But if there was really ONE thing that helped keep the 90s together it was the advent of the internet and coming into contact with others that shared my love for the Halos, and my growing interest in stats.  Having lived through that with people I never would have met, Tank, Brian, Superdave and my favorite Indians fan of all time, Bads85 made the trip much much more enjoyable -- the common hate for the Dodgers was a nice bonus too.

Looking forward, I'm optimistic when I hear from people in the Marlins and Reds organizations telling me they have lost scouts to the Angels since Eppler took over.  I'm overjoyed to hear the international staff has guys in the DR full time for the first time since Stoneman.  I'm happy to hear that many of these guys are being put through a stats boot camp before being assigned...  Right now all it's all just hope.   Maybe come June there will be reason to believe it's more than just that.. 

Be good to each other you asshats -- you're all here for the same reason.   Go Halos...

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Inside Pitch

[GalericX]

I wonder how many of the complainers on this board came around in '02 ?  Remember back then several people stated (I was one of them) that the new breed of angel fan would be a spoiled brat ? Welp we are seeing it.

This team currently is not very good, i would be happy if we went .500.  The Angels have work to do, but in the interim, i get to enjoy some baseball and watch Trout.  Yeah they suck right now, and will for awhile, but its still my Angels, i am still a very big fan, and will always be a big fan.  Like you Strandling i do not understand how so many can be a fan, yet curse, scream, and throw tantrums over stuff they have no control over.  Because in their mind set they want to hate, but yet call themselves a fan.

Be a fan of baseball, enjoy Trout , you are witnessing something special.  He will go down as one of the best ever, and you were there to watch him.