Middle Class Losing Ground

[Adam]

I'm happy with my income. If I do it, it will be because it will help me in my role as an advocate for economic and entrepreneurial freedom. PR has been pretty effective to this point. 

 

And yes, the Mrs. went to UCLA

[ABC]

Running for prez?

[Adam]

I don't think my mom would support me for president

[wopphil]

Generally speaking, I'd advise against law school unless you meet certain criteria, including: (1) you get into a very good school (preferably a tier 1 school); (2) you have the ability to dedicate a significant amount of time to your studies so that you do very well at said school; (3) you have significant financial help from parents and/or scholarships; (4) you graduate young enough to have a lot of time to pay off your debt; and (5) you actually want to be an attorney for some reason other than the money.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Jonathon and Justin?

...... wow

Small world man....mind blown

[Brandon]

I think demographic with law as well. My uncle in KC does very well plus the lower cost of living. Also, he points to attorneys that aren't in private practice....guys that work for the RJ Reynolds types or Boeing, etc. What's that, corporate law?

But yeah, all the attorneys I talk to mention how saturated the industry is and how they are trying to talk their kids out of following in their footsteps.

[Stradling]

...... wow

Small world man....mind blown

I've known them for a long time. Good guys. Jonathon is a helluva ball player. His wife worked with me as well.

[nate]

That's cool Strad.

 

Did your district ever extend to Arcadia?

[wopphil]

I think demographic with law as well. My uncle in KC does very well plus the lower cost of living. Also, he points to attorneys that aren't in private practice....guys that work for the RJ Reynolds types or Boeing, etc. What's that, corporate law?

But yeah, all the attorneys I talk to mention how saturated the industry is and how they are trying to talk their kids out of following in their footsteps.

To go in-house at a company like Boeing or RJ Reynolds, you most likely have to spend a number of years with a huge, prestigious firm, working 80+ hours week in and week out. And to get that firm job, you have to be toward the top of your class, from a top law school. In other words, those jobs are extremely difficult to get.

But in-house is a good gig.

[nate]

I have never checked... I wonder if Marquette is considered a good law school.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I've known them for a long time. Good guys. Jonathon is a helluva ball player. His wife worked with me as well.

what are the odds, haha. Both of them are great guys, have a ton of respect for them. Jonathon was never very good in school, had dyslexia bad. But hes one of the hardest working and most selfless people ive ever known. Hes a great example of making the most with what you have. Him and justin have both done very well for themselves

[ten ocho recon scout]

In becoming a lawyer, do you set up in school beforehand what kind of law you want to focus on? Like criminal vs civil? And do they kind of guide you towards "the industry needs more of thse, there plenty on that firld"?

[Tank]

one of my college buddies was hired during his senior year of law school at usc. during the summer after he graduated, he began his 'employment', which consisted of taking in-house classes in preparation to pass the bar. during that summer period he was being paid. the best part? they gave the new associates in the new york office a raise, so they firm did the same thing for the LA associates.

 

without stepping into a courtroom or even consulting with a client, his starting salary went up to $80k. that was in 1984.

[Stradling]

That's cool Strad.

Did your district ever extend to Arcadia?

No the furthest North I've been is La Habra. But if you know someone who became a Store Manager I will probably know them. Assistant manager might be tough for me to know. Anyone in corporate I will probably know, same with maintenance.

[Tank]

If you want to change careers and become a lawyer then there is still opportunity to make a very high salary. There are many people to model. The reality is that a teacher can earn as much as a high paid lawyer but it requires entrepreneurship skills and action. 

 

i'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but i'm very suspicious about this. high paid attorneys can make upwards of seven figures. there isn't a teacher alive who can come close to that. in fact, i don't know of nor have i ever heard of any classroom teacher that even makes 100k.

[nate]

I knew a couple brothers that worked at the Arcadia one on Santa Anita.  Don't think they ever made manager.  The Vagos.  Andrew and I forget his brothers name.  Would have been around 2000.

[wopphil]

In becoming a lawyer, do you set up in school beforehand what kind of law you want to focus on? Like criminal vs civil? And do they kind of guide you towards "the industry needs more of thse, there plenty on that firld"?

Not really. The curriculum is the same, though you can take elective courses in your field. But there really aren't many elective courses a school will offer in any given field. My school, for example, had only three employment related courses (basic employment law; employment discrimination; and labor law).

It is extremely difficult to get a prosecutor job these days. They are highly sought after. And with budget issues, I think many counties have frozen hiring or will only open positions to internal candidates. I am guessing public defender jobs are equally difficult to get.

[wopphil]

one of my college buddies was hired during his senior year of law school at usc. during the summer after he graduated, he began his 'employment', which consisted of taking in-house classes in preparation to pass the bar. during that summer period he was being paid. the best part? they gave the new associates in the new york office a raise, so they firm did the same thing for the LA associates.

without stepping into a courtroom or even consulting with a client, his starting salary went up to $80k. that was in 1984.

That seems high Tank. I think the biggest firms were paying about $30k in the mid 80s (starting, first year associate salary) and then were up to $85k by the end of the 90s. They hit $160k about 8 years ago, and have been stagnant since. There is talk about them going up to $190k this spring.

For more senior associates, the money can be quite good ($275k base, plus $100k bonus).

But again, this is not the typical law job. I'd guess only about 1-2% of new attorneys get jobs in the big firms making the big bucks. For a new attorney, a job in a reputable firm paying $80k to start should be considered a big success.

[wopphil]

I have never checked... I wonder if Marquette is considered a good law school.

The last set of rankings put it at number 105 - tier 3. I think there are about 200 ABA accredited schools nationwide, so it's ranking puts it in the middle. As a general rule, the biggest firms have rules against hiring anyone from a school outside the top tier or top two tiers.

Edited December 22, 2015 by wopphil

[nate]

So I am wasting my time anyway

[wopphil]

So I am wasting my time anyway

No, not at all. Are you going to law school there?

[nate]

No, not at all. Are you going to law school there?

 

I have been taking a couple classes per semester there.

 

My daughter's friend's dad is the director of the law school there.

Edited December 22, 2015 by nate

[Tank]

one of the more interesting classes i took for my masters was legal issues in education. completely fascinated by the class and the content. wouldn't mind taking more law classes, but not really interested in being an attorney.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Not really. The curriculum is the same, though you can take elective courses in your field. But there really aren't many elective courses a school will offer in any given field. My school, for example, had only three employment related courses (basic employment law; employment discrimination; and labor law).

It is extremely difficult to get a prosecutor job these days. They are highly sought after. And with budget issues, I think many counties have frozen hiring or will only open positions to internal candidates. I am guessing public defender jobs are equally difficult to get.

very interesting. First, i guess i always assumed there were like a thousand different routes. Like lawsuit lawyer, branching into what kind of lawsuits etc. Criminal lawyer, then deciding wither defense or prosecution.

But equally suprising is jobs with the DA and Public Defender being tougher to get. I would have always assumed the private side would be where the money is at

[wopphil]

very interesting. First, i guess i always assumed there were like a thousand different routes. Like lawsuit lawyer, branching into what kind of lawsuits etc. Criminal lawyer, then deciding wither defense or prosecution.

But equally suprising is jobs with the DA and Public Defender being tougher to get. I would have always assumed the private side would be where the money is at

The private sector is where the money is found (well, in theory), but the government jobs are highly desired because they don't have to track their time ("billable hours"), they get into trial, they have good benefits, and they can't get fired.

The vast majority of law students go into private practice (law firms) after graduating. Some go in-house. Some go to work for the government. Law firms do just about any type of work you can imagine, but most have a litigation practice (people and/or companies suing one another for various reasons).