Drone Strikes

[nate]

You don't?  What war are we actually in Nate?  What has given us the right to send unmanned destruction bots bombing areas where civilians live?

 

If we as a country think this is ok then I don't understand why we have a problem with terrorists flying planes into our buildings.  After all, we are at war.

 

Gun skill more people every year than the number that died in the twin towers.  Maybe it is time we address the terrorists in our government that feel guns are a right and completely look past the murder of innocent women and children.

[Crampknees]

I myself also hate the thought of any kind of drone strike.  

[Glen]

The thing about drones is they put an unequal value on lives. The justification is that they keep our troops out of harm's way but they also make the killing more impersonal. That said, drone operators have a higher level of burnout than combat pilots.

As with most issues, it's complicated and there are no easy answers.

[Blarg]

One of my biggest challenge with this administration is their use of drones. I understand the idea, you can fight enemies without putting the US military personnel in harm's way...but it certainly seems like it makes it more likelier we are willing to go after potential targets without doing the due diligence we would if military personnel were required to be engaged in the fighting.

 

It's not an easy decision though, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Let's say you have credible evidence of a target who is actively planning (or conducted) activities against US citizens, but that target has put themselves in the middle of a civilian area....do you take the shot?

 

I know it sounds cavalier, but war used to be so much easier.

 

When ISIS sweeps into a small city the civilian causalities exceed all of the collateral damage done by all of the drone strikes ever made.

[mtangelsfan]

Gun skill more people every year than the number that died in the twin towers.  Maybe it is time we address the terrorists in our government that feel guns are a right and completely look past the murder of innocent women and children.

 

 

They are.  Get over it and instead of going batshit crazy have real discussions about what kind of guns and who should be able to buy them.

 

Or, you can simply use the Constitution's own rules to get rid of the Second Amendment.  

 

In the meantime, I am not going to let the president get away with his own hypocrisy.  He doesn't talk about gang violence, he doesn't talk about black on black crime (which is where a large majority of gun deaths occur) he doesn't talk about mental health issues.

[mtangelsfan]

When ISIS sweeps into a small city the civilian causalities exceed all of the collateral damage done by all of the drone strikes ever made.

 

Maybe we should just drop a nuke close to one of their camps.  I mean, who cares about the collateral damage, right?

[Blarg]

The thing about drones is they put an unequal value on lives. The justification is that they keep our troops out of harm's way but they also make the killing more impersonal. That said, drone operators have a higher level of burnout than combat pilots.

As with most issues, it's complicated and there are no easy answers.

 

The justification is they don't do a complete Dresden sweep of cities under ISIS control. 12 people at the most die in a drone attack, 20,000 in a single air force sweep of b1s. That is unequal value kills.

[mtangelsfan]

Its just 12 per drone, no big deal.  12 lives.

 

If 12 lives don't matter why should I care about a school shooting that killed 9?

[Blarg]

Maybe we should just drop a nuke close to one of their camps.  I mean, who cares about the collateral damage, right?

 

Maybe we are doing what needs to be done without taking the Dresden approach.

[nate]

They are.  Get over it and instead of going batshit crazy have real discussions about what kind of guns and who should be able to buy them.

 

Or, you can simply use the Constitution's own rules to get rid of the Second Amendment.  

 

In the meantime, I am not going to let the president get away with his own hypocrisy.  He doesn't talk about gang violence, he doesn't talk about black on black crime (which is where a large majority of gun deaths occur) he doesn't talk about mental health issues.

 

Considering that the NRA and the gun lobby gives millions of dollars a year to our elected officials you and I both know that will never happen.

[Adam]

I wonder what percentage of the gun deaths in our country are caused by convicted felons using illegally obtained (street) guns?

[mtangelsfan]

Considering that the NRA and the gun lobby gives millions of dollars a year to our elected officials you and I both know that will never happen.

 

So you are arguing about something that you don't ever think will happen?

[Blarg]

Its just 12 per drone, no big deal.  12 lives.

 

If 12 lives don't matter why should I care about a school shooting that killed 9?

 

The twelve can all be military targets or a mix. Never has any war been waged without civilian casualties. Drones do minimize that over conventional bombing or boots on the ground.

 

At least drones don't put children's heads on spikes to terrorize the population into submission like the targets they are assigned to take out.

[mtangelsfan]

What war are we in Eric?  Did we declare war on Pakistan, Yemen or Sudan and I missed it?

[Blarg]

We declared war on the combatants that have fled within their borders. That war has not come to a resolution.

[mtangelsfan]

Really?  When did congress approve that?  

[Blarg]

The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001. The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups. The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001.

[Glen]

They are. Get over it and instead of going batshit crazy have real discussions about what kind of guns and who should be able to buy them.

Or, you can simply use the Constitution's own rules to get rid of the Second Amendment.

In the meantime, I am not going to let the president get away with his own hypocrisy. He doesn't talk about gang violence, he doesn't talk about black on black crime (which is where a large majority of gun deaths occur) he doesn't talk about mental health issues.

Seems like it's mostly people on the left that want to have the discussion you mentioned. The right seems to be more about cold dead hands. The president seems to be more in line with your discussion than most politicians.

[mtangelsfan]

Seems like it's mostly people on the left that want to have the discussion you mentioned. The right seems to be more about cold dead hands. The president seems to be more in line with your discussion than most politicians.

 

No, my discussion would include all that I have stated.  Not just guns.  

 

I don't align myself right/left anyways.  I couldn't care less about the NRA, Unions, or either side of the idiotic debates we have.

 

What I believe is, at this point, the Constitution allows gun ownership.  I don't believe that means Carte Blanche, because even free speech isn't that.  I do believe that I should be able to defend my own home with a gun if I so choose and that no law, other than a revision to the 2nd Amendment, should be able to stop that from happening.

[nate]

You want to ban Abortion even though it is allowed under the 14th amendment but cite the second amendment every time gun ownership comes into question.

 

Excellent hypocrisy.

[mtangelsfan]

You want to ban Abortion even though it is allowed under the 14th amendment but cite the second amendment every time gun ownership comes into question.

 

Excellent hypocrisy.

 

That may be the weakest comparison I have ever read on here.

 

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

Let me add this.  Find a post where I suggested outlawing abortion.  Let me give you a hint, you won't find one.  You are so focused on winning this argument you are simply making stuff up now.

[Tank]

It shouldn't be.  Why are the lives of Americans more important than anyone else's?

 

Also, this was really about Obama himself.  He has to gall to act so self-righteous about guns in this country and innocent lives being lost while he goes on bombing innocents abroad.

 

i don't disagree with any of your points. it's an outrage that drone strikes not only continue, but have actually increased under this president, and it's even more appalling that they get such relatively little attention in the media while a guy that kills a lion legally is internet shamed daily and almost has to close his business.

[mtangelsfan]

The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001. The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups. The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001.

 

So you are saying that the terrorists in Sudan/Somalia that we are droning took part in 9/11?

[mtangelsfan]

By the way, I'm guessing nate is hitting the aw search function HARD right now.

[Tank]

I wonder what percentage of the gun deaths in our country are caused by convicted felons using illegally obtained (street) guns?

 

they don't even need to be convicted felons.

 

this doesn't get nearly enough attention from anyone, and it's one of my bigger concerns about the staggering number of guns in this country.