Heyman 1st half awards: Trout MVP

[Broad Street]

noticeably absent is any mention of defense

 

Did you read what I said all the way through? I mentioned defense twice.

[tdawg87]

Trout is a machine, but he's not the MVP of the American League right now. Yeah, he leads the league in runs and is up there in OBP, SLG%, and OPS. Even though he's hurt, Miggy leads Trout in most categories minus home runs (shouldn't be the lead reason for MVP) and RBI's. It's also hard to ignore what Prince Fielder has done as well, though he gets points marked off for not playing defense. Also, a dark horse candidate to me, at least for the MVP at the end of the season, is Manny Machado. He's an absolute assassin with the glove, even more so than Josh Donaldson, and is only 1 point behind Trout for the AL WAR lead. Trout is great, but don't just pencil him in because he's Trout and he's awesome. He's not really running away with it.

 

Seems like you're just playing devil's advocate here for the lolz but I'll bite.

 

Trout leads the AL in runs, SLG, and OPS+. He's also tied for the AL lead in wRC+. BTW he isn't just "up there in OBP and SLG and OPS". He's 2nd in OBP and OPS and 1st in SLG.

 

So let's recap. Trout is Top 2 in the AL in:

 

OPS (2nd)

OPS+ (1st)

wRC+ (t-1st)

HR (t-1st)

Runs (1st)

WAR (1st)

OBP (2nd)

SLG (1st)

 

Miguel Cabrera using those same stats:

 

OPS (1st)

OPS+ (2nd)

wRC+ (t-1st)

HR (t-16th)

Runs (t-27th)

WAR (7th)

OBP (1st)

SLG (2nd)

 

You also mentioned that Fielder "gets points knocked off for defense". Well what about Cabrera and his absolutely horrid range at first? What about giving Trout some credit for his defense?

 

So please tell me who the MVP is of the AL "right now". I'm dying to know.

[tdawg87]

Did you read what I said all the way through? I mentioned defense twice.

 

And neither time was it related to Trout and Cabrera.

[Broad Street]

Please tell me where Trout is ranked in defensive metrics. And please tell me when voters cared about defense. One could say Sale or Kuechel have a good argument to be considered.

I shouldn't say Trout ISN'T the MVP, because that might be a misspeak. I'm just saying he's not a shoe in like everyone seems to think he is.

[Lou]

Did you read what I said all the way through? I mentioned defense twice.

 

i should have clarified my comment.  I was referring to Cabrera, since 

your main argument that he, not Trout, has been the MVP thus far.

[Troll Daddy]

Individual awards are pretty much meaningless to me ... they're nice but winning is the only true award. Team awards have far more value.

 

 

Tout is a machine

[Pujols4MVP]

Sounds like the ones who vote on the award are the same ones who vote on the Norris trophy in the NHL......all offense no taking defense into the equation.

Edited July 14, 2015 by MikeScioscia4MVP

[Hollyw00d]

Mike sciosica,manager of June 25th to the end of the year award

[Lou]

Please tell me where Trout is ranked in defensive metrics. And please tell me when voters cared about defense. One could say Sale or Kuechel have a good argument to be considered.

I shouldn't say Trout ISN'T the MVP, because that might be a misspeak. I'm just saying he's not a shoe in like everyone seems to think he is.

 

i'll tell you where Trout is ranked in defensive metrics. 

WAAAAY above Cabrera and Fielder. 

 

and you can't really believe that voters haven't given Trout, 

or someone like McCutchen , credit for their play in the field

when considering who the MVP's are in MLB

[Lou]

Individual awards are pretty much meaningless to me ... they're nice but winning is the only true award. Team awards have far more value.

 

 

Tout is a machine

 

so is Pjols

[Hollyw00d]

i'll tell you where Trout is ranked in defensive metrics.

WAAAAY above Cabrera and Fielder.

and you can't really believe that voters haven't given Trout,

or someone like McCutchen , credit for their play in the field

when considering who the MVP's are in MLB

Miguel Cabrera MVP 2012, 2013 says hello

[Lou]

Sounds like the ones who vote on the award are the same ones who vote on the Norris trophy in the NHL......all offense no taking defense into the equation.

 

Trout and McCutchen being named MVPs would suggest otherwise

[Lou]

Miguel Cabrera MVP 2012, 2013 says hello

 

and?

[Broad Street]

I should have clarified that had Miggy not gotten hurt he would very much be in the conversation. Yeah, OK valid, he's not a great defender at first. He doesn't steal many bases. Trout is better at both of those things. Point made. I still don't think Trout is running away with it, nor will he win it unanimously unless he has a monster 2nd half.

[Hollyw00d]

and?

Annnnnnnnnnd, you're wrong.

[tdawg87]

It's too early to say anyone is running away with it. But he did win it unanimously last year despite a pretty mundane 2nd half (by his standards).

[Hollyw00d]

Trout "became" MVP when he was near the league leaders in homers and rbi and stole way fewer bases

Edited July 15, 2015 by Hollyw00d

[tdawg87]

Annnnnnnnnnd, you're wrong.

 

No I'm pretty sure Cabrera won the MVP those years because Trout's defensive value wasn't enough to close the gap in offensive value between the two. He led Trout in just about every offensive category. This year? Not even close.

[Hollyw00d]

Actually trout was better offensively in 2012 and 2013, if you factor in all offensive contributions and not just ops

[tdawg87]

Trout "became" MVP when he was near the league leaders in homers and rbi and stole way fewer bases

 

So explain why Victor Martinez didn't get a single 1st place vote last year despite having a significantly higher batting average and OPS than Trout? Trout only had 4 more homeruns and 8 more RBI's. That isn't enough to run away with it.

[Hollyw00d]

Because he is a DH and they never win.

The voters would prefer someone who is god awful in the field and actually hurts his team with the glove

Hence, they don't give a poo about defensive ability

[Hollyw00d]

I actually believe v mart had a great case for MVP last year, he had an outstanding season

[tdawg87]

Actually trout was better offensively in 2012 and 2013, if you factor in all offensive contributions and not just ops

 

Ok.

 

2012:

 

AVG - Cabrera

HR - Cabrera

RBI - Cabrera

OPS - Cabrera

Hits - Cabrera

Runs - Tie

wOBA - Cabrera

wRC+ - Trout

OPS+ - Trout

Total Bases - Cabrera

 

Cabrera - Triple crown winner.

 

2013:

 

AVG - Cabrera

HR - Cabrera

RBI - Cabrera

OPS - Cabrera

Hits - Cabrera

Runs - Trout

wOBA - Cabrera

wRC+ - Cabrera

OPS+ - Cabrera

Total Bases - Cabrera

 

What are you even trying to argue right now?

[Hollyw00d]

That you're completely ignoring a major facet of the game

[tdawg87]

Ah yes, Trout's baserunning made up for ALL those stats being worse than Cabrera's.

 

I like how you say that the voters don't care about defense but apparently they care about baserunning? I'm pretty sure they care about both. But neither was enough to give Trout the MVP over Cabrera.