Should have traded for another starter...

[YouthofToday]

Navarro doesn't have much, if any, trade value.

[Docwaukee]

we probably could have gotten Arrieta and Strop from the O's for Vargas last year if that's any comfort. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Cubs will want a large package.

Of prospects.

if we're smart, we'll screw them with a small package..

Ive been saying Lee since last season. Hes the only guy I can think of who we can get cheap prospect wise because hes expensive and his team doesnt need him (philly sucks).

I still say watching lee, hamilton, pujols, cj and freese win a world series would be the winning ingredients to the most epic stamm youtube video in history.

[Blarg]

Stam is too busy making Cowboys rants in his mom's basement to pay attention to the world series.

[instant karma]

Of course, it would be marvelous to have Price.  You can never have too much starting pitching.  As you know, it's not that easy.

 

To get Price, the Ray's would of probably asked for Richards, Cron, and another prospect or draft pick.  I don't believe they would of accepted the bullpen pieces (although they are good talent) and Cron.   They might have accepted a package of Calhoun, Green, Bedrosian, and Skaggs, but I don't make that deal if I'm Dipoto.  

[Carlota Gonzalez]

The Rays are hot right now, winning 15/20. They may not be willing to give up Price now. 

[ScottT]

This is a fair argument against the Street trade.  That package wouldn't have gotten David Price... and I doubt the Angels could've assembled a package to get David Price...  without trading someone important to the club right now (Calhoun) or in the future (Skaggs)... but starting pitchers make a bigger difference, and the rotation has some issues.   They aren't left with much to trade now,   Any starting pitcher they acquire will likely  be as questionable as the group they have.  

[YouthofToday]

Rays would have most likely asked for Calhoun, Richards, Skaggs and Cron.

[ScottT]

and Dipoto would laugh.  Then, Friedman would laugh.  

 

12+ months ago there wouldn't have been so much laughing.  

[Angel Oracle]

Okay, here is the crux of the subject.

How much more does an extra middle of the rotation starter benefit the team than having a lockdown back end of the bullpen?

I still think those 4 players for Street and Gott was too much to give up.

But admittedly I have softened a little on the extent of how much so. Rondon is the one that really hurts to see traded away, and of course Alvarez.

We have seen a strong bullpen overcome a decent at best rotation for the 2002 Halos, 2007 Red Sox, 2008 Phillies, and 2013 Red Sox, as they won a WS title.

We have also seen a strong rotation propel the 2001 D-Backs and 2003 Marlins to the WS title.

We saw both a strong rotation and strong pen of course propel the 2005 ChiSox and 2010 Giants to the WS title.

It does seem that a strong back end of the pen is just about a prerequisite to win a WS title. Very few if any teams since 2000 have won a WS title with having just at best a decent to solid pen.

[Angel Oracle]

The Rays are hot right now, winning 15/20. They may not be willing to give up Price now. 

 

I never thought I'd say this, but the AL East is so mediocre that 87 wins could win it in 2014.   The Rays are not out of it by any stretch.

 

^^^^^AO, I thought you were on Self Ban?????

 

 

Don't mess with the Streak.....Disappear!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL, they have gone 2-1 since I returned.    Maybe the return set the stage for BowandArrowGate?

And anyway, self-bans are stupid; as well as that abomination of a thread I started yesterday, feel free to send it to the HOF section.    It was nice to partially avenge the season opening sweep, to be sure (5-4 against M's since that sweep).

Now, they have one remaining team to right the ship against: Oakland (currently 3-6 against). 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[ettin]

Something else to consider is this: Although the Angels most certainly overpaid they have set a price for all other teams wanting to move their closers in trade making it difficult for teams in need of a high-end reliever acquiring them on the cheap.

Certainly some will still move (and possibly for a cheaper price) based on their quality level and remaining contract but the Angels (and the A's with starting pitching rentals for that matter) have set the bar high.

[Chuck]

Cubs will want a large package.

 

Of prospects.

 

I doubt it. Arrieta is finally pitching well after how many seasons? If we offered a couple guys we may be able to land him. 

[MVTrout]

If you think the Angels have the pieces to acquire Price...you're an idiot!

[ItzTacosYerrp]

Lol you dont get a guy that is having a great year

You overpay for a guy with a track record

-Angels Management

[Scott34]

Why would the Phillies want Cron?

[Second Base]

Why would the Phillies want Cron?

 

They wouldn't.  I think they'd want salary relief for sure, but no one just gives away a Cliff Lee caliber pitcher for nothing.  Angels would need to part ways with more prospects in a trade that would likely make the Street trade's dagger feel like a scratch. 

[KevinStockerIsGod]

Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 5m

#Tigers, #bluejays, #orioles, #brewers, #angels, #royals, #sfgiants. #Rangers, #dbacks and #pirates have scouts in Philly tonight.

 

Cliff Lee Watch.

Edited July 21, 2014 by KevinStockerIsGod

[tdawg87]

And every team there can currently offer a better package for him. However most probably can't take on his entire contract like the living wallet, Arte Moreno.

[Angel Oracle]

Agree on Moreno having the bucks (if truly not concerned with the luxury tax). 

But how effective can Lee be, since he turns 36 next month and hasn't pitched in the AL in some 4 years?

Plus his WHIP in 68 innings so far is 1.28, pretty high for the NL. 

He's giving up more hits per innings pitched than in any season since 2009.

 

With his 2014 peripheral stats so far (taking NL vs. AL into consideration), he's really not that much better than Skaggs, Santiago, or Shoemaker.

He has the experience they don't have, but otherwise it's seemingly a wash.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[Angels]

With his 2014 peripheral stats so far (taking NL vs. AL into consideration), he's really not that much better than Skaggs, Santiago, or Shoemaker.

He has the experience they don't have, but otherwise it's seemingly a wash.

Hilarious.

That's ridiculous, even for you.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Angels

[Angel Oracle]

Okay, looking beyond his 1.28 WHIP so far then, is his low 3.18 ERA so far in 2014 a reflection of pitching in the NL, or is he really good at stranding runners so far?   

 

The WHIPs of Santiago (1.31), Skaggs (1.26), and Shoemaker (1.34) are all comparable to Lee's so far in 2014.  

 

Lee's control is still rock solid (9 BBs in 68 innings), his GB/FB ratio is still around 50/50, and he keeps the ball in the park (5 HRs in 68 innings).

But is he now very hittable with the 78 hits allowed and just 61 K's in 68 innings?

 

Remember that we benefit not from what Lee has done in the past, aside from the experience factor, but from what he may do from August 2014 forward.  

Are his stats so far in 2014 indicative of a permanent decline having started already?

Or is he capable of solid pitching for 2 more seasons?

Edited July 22, 2014 by Angel Oracle