Help me out, farm system nerds:

[Inside Pitch]

The twitter part was trolling, but if we can get two pretty darn good players like Cron and Calhoun out of the system, it couldn't have been too bad.

 

The Twitter part was genius.

Our farm system was underrated because it lacks the sort of high end tools that scouts fawn over.    Typically places like BBA will see two players, one of them a filled out 22 year old putting up a .900 OPS and dismiss him while at the same time talking up the 19 year old with the .650 OPS and room to grow and an above average tool.

 

Because of the lack of depth the Angels went into "high floor" mode in recent years, those types have a better than average chance to make the majors but less room to grow into starts.  Matt Carpenter, Allen Craig are two good examples of guys like this who have gone on to be minor stars, Matt Adams is too to a lesser extent.   A lot of our pitching draftees the last couple of years have been similar high floor types.  They may all profile best case as number 3's and more likely as 4s and 5s, but they will likely have MLB careers.  The Angels have been extremely successful at graduating MLB players with very little fanfare.

 

I had a long drawn out "discussion" about this with an Angels fan who assured me that there was no way possible the Angels would be able to overcome the Rangers and their amazing farm system in the prospects forum.  People buy into farm rankings way too much.

[DMVol]

I don't think of Calhoun as a late developer, more of a guy drafted out of college, spent a couple of years in the minors and he has been pretty solid since his call up.

Very much like Trumbo.....

[Inside Pitch]

Very much like Trumbo.....

 

Nothing like Trumbo.   Trumbo was a HS pick that repeated several leagues.

[DMVol]

Nothing like Trumbo.   Trumbo was a HS pick that repeated several leagues.

Neither had/has wow tools, although Trumbo's power might qualify....Calhoun moved faster through the minors but I still think they are similiar---8th/18th round picks that you would have projected as 4A type guys, maybe.....somebody scouted well or guessed right....

Edited July 11, 2014 by DMVol

[bloodbrother]

Similar in that they were overlooked? Player wise, they aren't very similar. Trumbo did have one standout tool, his raw power, which was easy plus. Calhoun was basically considered average in everything(power, speed, hit)

 

I think Calhoun is the better player than Trumbo because he can actually play defense and he has a better understanding of the strike zone, which will allow him to hit for better averages

 

Calhoun actually reminds me a lot of Shin-Soo Choo except that he can actually hit LHP

Edited July 11, 2014 by bloodbrother

[DMVol]

Similar in that they were overlooked? Player wise, they aren't very similar. Trumbo did have one standout tool, his raw power, which was easy plus. Calhoun was basically considered average in everything(power, speed, hit)

I think Calhoun is the better player than Trumbo because he can actually play defense and he has a better understanding of the strike zone, which will allow him to hit for better averages

Calhoun actually reminds me a lot of Shin-Soo Choo except that he can actually hit LHP

Not necessarily similar as players obviously (although Trumbo is a better all around player than he probably gets credit for---passable defender, not a bad base runner for a big guy) but similar in that they weren't considered "toolsy" guys (with the exception of Trumbo's power) and I think if you looked at all the evaluations for both as they came through the minors, both were probably considered 4A guys, maybe Calhoun was a 4th OF'er at best (which is what Scioscia is trying to make him in a platoon)....

[Inside Pitch]

Neither had/has wow tools, although Trumbo's power might qualify....Calhoun moved faster through the minors but I still think they are similiar---8th/18th round picks that you would have projected as 4A type guys, maybe.....somebody scouted well or guessed right....

 

Trumbo was a late pick because he had a college commitment.  He was given 1st round money to buy him out of that.  He was not highly thought of because he was an underwhelming prospect.  Both his arm and his power were considered plus tools..

 

Doesn't matter, I don't agree with the connection you are trying to make but I understand how you mean it.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[DMVol]

Trumbo was a late pick because he had a college commitment.  He was given 1st round money to buy him out of that.  He was not highly thought of because he was an underwhelming prospect.

You give 1st round money to a later pick that you think has big upside (Adenhart, who had signed with UNC, I think, and was hurt)....you don't give 1st round money to an "underwhelming prospect"....If Trumbo wasn't rated as at least a pretty good prospect, you probably let him go on to UCLA, not offer him 1st round bucks...

[Inside Pitch]

You give 1st round money to a later pick that you think has big upside (Adenhart, who had signed with UNC, I think, and was hurt)....you don't give 1st round money to an "underwhelming prospect"....If Trumbo wasn't rated as at least a pretty good prospect, you probably let him go on to UCLA, not offer him 1st round bucks...

 

......  

 

So, basically you agree.  Trumbo was nothing like Calhoun in that he was at one point highly sought after big dollar prospect...  Forest meet the trees.   His underwhelming performances kept him off prospect lists (which is the ONLY thing he shared in common with Calhoun) -- not sure what part of that you can't seem to understand.  He was nothing like Calhoun.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Second Base]

The simple answer is that prospect sites are in love with the highly projectable high school talent that's drafted in the early round and they literally scout these prospects less than I or pretty much any other Angels site does.

 

Guys like Cron and Calhoun don't fit the profile so they don't receive the hype.  Fine by me. 

 

If you want a true gauge on the Angels prospects, I've found angels.scout.com, Angelswin and MWAH to be by far the most accurate.  In fact they're the only ones that have anything to offer.   

 

(Disclaimer, I'm the prospect guy for MWAH, so I'm obviously biased).

[Hubs]

Calhoun wasn't rated highly because people thought he was too old for the league he dominated (High-A) and that league is a high offense league. Cron wasn't highly rated (neither was Trumbo) because they looked at his power as his only All-Star level tool. And he had hurt his shoulder in college, limiting his defense.

 

My thoughts on Cron are if he was a Catcher in College, could he be a Victor Martinez type Catcher/1B/DH in the future?

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/14/sports/la-sp-sn-angels-cj-cron-pujols-trumbo-20130714

 

 

It would certainly boost his value having his offense from the catching position, and though I am perfectly happy with the catchers the Angels have now, it's still not out of the realm of possibility.

[maximus p]

The Twitter part was genius.

1. Our farm system was underrated because it lacks the sort of high end tools that scouts fawn over.    

2. People buy into farm rankings way too much.

1:  a lot of these guys happen to be 1st rounders, which we lack

2:  I wonder how much time the "national" guys really dig into a system?  We all know that their knowledge of anything west of _______________ is pretty much cursory.  Kept hearing how Pujols had made a resurgence, during his recent slump (obviously cherry-picking his April stats).

[Mark68]

1:  a lot of these guys happen to be 1st rounders, which we lack

2:  I wonder how much time the "national" guys really dig into a system?  We all know that their knowledge of anything west of _______________ is pretty much cursory.  Kept hearing how Pujols had made a resurgence, during his recent slump (obviously cherry-picking his April stats).

Yeah, if you only watch MLB Network or the East of St Louis or Pennsylvania Network. I read a lot of stuff on BP, and Jason Parks & Co have a good handle on prospects everywhere. FWIW, there is a lot of agreement that the best farm systems right now belong to the Cubs & Twins, and when you look at the high-ceiling talent (and depth) in those two systems, it's hard to argue.

 

The problem with the Angels' system, as has been noted, is the lack of high-upside prospects and the lack of depth. It's going to be a long uphill slog, but we're on the right track.

[DMVol]

So, basically you agree.  Trumbo was nothing like Calhoun in that he was at one point highly sought after big dollar prospect...  Forest meet the trees.   His underwhelming performances kept him off prospect lists (which is the ONLY thing he shared in common with Calhoun) -- not sure what part of that you can't seem to understand.  He was nothing like Calhoun.

 

Not sure what you want me to agree with ....You lost me at some point...Neither were "underwhelming" as prospects but neither was a great tools guy either...they were both somewhere in between....I have said I thought they were both projected as 4A type guys...to that extent, they are similar....that's all I meant....

[ELEVEN]

Calhoun wasn't rated highly because people thought he was too old for the league he dominated (High-A) and that league is a high offense league. Cron wasn't highly rated (neither was Trumbo) because they looked at his power as his only All-Star level tool. And he had hurt his shoulder in college, limiting his defense.

My thoughts on Cron are if he was a Catcher in College, could he be a Victor Martinez type Catcher/1B/DH in the future?

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/14/sports/la-sp-sn-angels-cj-cron-pujols-trumbo-20130714

It would certainly boost his value having his offense from the catching position, and though I am perfectly happy with the catchers the Angels have now, it's still not out of the realm of possibility.

Did you see Cron throwing to 2B this week?

Cron tore his labrum in College and hasn't been considered at C since.

[ELEVEN]

I had heard that Trumbo was originally drafted as a starting pitcher, and when the team signed him they let him take swings in batting practice with the MLB club as a perk. Apparently he hit a few towering shots into the rocks and Arte or someone very high up decided they would find a position for him.

Is any of this true, or did I probably just overhear this in a bar somewhere along the line from some *idoit?

*I used to watch Angel games after work at the Brett brothers' bar in El Segundo pretty often. **Can't remember the name of the place.

A lot of scouts and Org types hung out there. Source of a lot of hot air.

**Brain Moran Damage

Edited July 12, 2014 by ELEVEN

[Hollyw00d]

Twitter.

I have never seen a supposedly hetero message board that obsesses over guys' junk region like this board (the never ending Escobar posts, Tdawg's Trout boners, etc.)

dont forgot scioscia's bulge pic

[Second Base]

I had heard that Trumbo was originally drafted as a starting pitcher, and when the team signed him they let him take swings in batting practice with the MLB club as a perk. Apparently he hit a few towering shots into the rocks and Arte or someone very high up decided they would find a position for him.

Is any of this true, or did I probably just overhear this in a bar somewhere along the line from some *idoit?

*I used to watch Angel games after work at the Brett brothers' bar in El Segundo pretty often. **Can't remember the name of the place.

A lot of scouts and Org types hung out there. Source of a lot of hot air.

**Brain Moran Damage

 

The way I remember it, Trumbo was drafted as a pitcher, he was on the fence about signing, mostly because he was drafted later than he thought he would've been and the signing bonus would've been less than he was capable of getting after a couple of years at USC.  He went through a routine physical after he was drafted and team docs found an abnormality in his elbow.  After it was agreed the Angels preferred not to sign him as a pitcher they let him take BP at the stadium just to see if the field was an option.  He obviously put on a display and the Angels definitely wanted to sign him.  However, he was still leaning toward going to USC regardless because of where he was drafted and his chances of cashing in.  The Angels took a chance and paid him a WAY above slot bonus to get him to skip out on USC.  

 

Looks like the right move. 

[Docwaukee]

YK in high school:

 

Help me with  my geometry homework dickweed!!!