What makes a manager good or bad?

[Taylor]

This team has been expected to make the playoffs the last four years and has missed every time. At some point, you have to blame management.

 

You blame the GM when the team consistently has subpar talent entering Opening Day.

[ScottT]

Managers teach players to not first swing at crap with runners on first and second but instead wait for a pitch to drive.  

 

PONY League managers? 

[ScottT]

This team has been expected to make the playoffs the last four years and has missed every time. At some point, you have to blame management.

 

You blame the GM when the team consistently has subpar talent entering Opening Day.

 

Dipoto hasn't even been on the job for two years.  

 

The team has not consistently had subpar talent.

 

Do you blame the Astros GM that they've had subpar talent?

[tomsred]

Like I said in another thread ... Do you believe that's Mike's decision?

I believe it is Mike's decision to bat Hamilton 3rd.  I believe he does this because Hamilton was signed to be a run producer.  He's been successful at being a run producer in the past.  Mike knows the season is a lost cause, he can not or will not say that publicly.  Hamilton is of zero use to this team hitting at the bottom of the order, that isn't what he was signed to do.  I think the answer is that he should continue to hit in a run producing situation until he swims or sinks (looks like he's sinking at the moment).  If someone is not performing in the role they were hired, then it is Dipoto's problem to somehow remove him from the team. 

 

The same pertains to Scioscia.  Dipoto is the guy who should be evaluating Scioscia, if he's not performing to his Dipoto's criteria then Dipoto has to man up and remove him.

 

Unlike some of you, I am convinced that Scioscia and Dipoto have thoroughly discussed the Hamilton situation completely.  If they have not, then it's up to Arte to fix that.  None of us have enough facts to definitively say this or that is the problem, let the organization sort it out. 

[Taylor]

Dipoto hasn't even been on the job for two years.  

 

The team has not consistently had subpar talent.

 

Do you blame the Astros GM that they've had subpar talent?

 

You misunderstood me. I'm saying the Angels' situation warrants pointing the finger at Scioscia, not Dipoto.

[ScottT]

You misunderstood me. I'm saying the Angels' situation warrants pointing the finger at Scioscia, not Dipoto.

 

I did.  My bad.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I believe it is Mike's decision to bat Hamilton 3rd.  I believe he does this because Hamilton was signed to be a run producer.  He's been successful at being a run producer in the past.  Mike knows the season is a lost cause, he can not or will not say that publicly.  Hamilton is of zero use to this team hitting at the bottom of the order, that isn't what he was signed to do.  I think the answer is that he should continue to hit in a run producing situation until he swims or sinks (looks like he's sinking at the moment). 

 

You talk about Hamilton like he's not hitting and it's the second week in April. He has sucked all season and this is the second week of August. I don't believe that you can use the phrase "at the moment" to describe a situation that has existed for more than four months of the season.

[Ohtaniland]

Damn, now even Bud Black's Padres have a better record than our Angels. Geez what a season.

[SmallSampleSize]

If good or bad players are all it takes, then for once...

 

...I'm excited about Hamilton and Pujols career-low performance this year.

 

It means some good news is-a-comin'!   Although knowing this org's luck as of late, Arte will can dummy instead of fatty.

 

But really, after this season is over these fun threads won't be around anymore.  I don't think we'll be 2 weeks into the post-season before Arte announces changes.

 

No one enjoys being taken for a ride.  Especially not when hundreds of millions of dollars are involved.  Also, whatever he eats on his contract, he knows he's losing MUCH more in all the other associated revenue streams.   A few playoff appearances will more than make up for it financially, in so many ways.

 

A couple more months, we'll be there.

[The Dude]

Damn, now even Bud Black's Padres have a better record than our Angels. Geez what a season.

Good. Keeps them out of the top ten for next years draft. Angels currently have the 10th. I'm hoping they can sneak into the top 5 by years end. Either way when Cano signs(lol) they wont have to sacrifice their first pick for the first time in what seems like forever.

[Troll Daddy]

You talk about Hamilton like he's not hitting and it's the second week in April. He has sucked all season and this is the second week of August. I don't believe that you can use the phrase "at the moment" to describe a situation that has existed for more than four months of the season.

Tomsred was dead on right ... Hamilton was signed to be a 3-4 hitter in the lineup. You can bet the farm that Scioscia and Dipoto have discussed were they want him to bat.

We're less than one year into a Mega Million dollar contract. There is no frock in way you're going to deviate from the original plan this soon into a five year contract.

Keeping sticking his arse in the middle of the lineup!

[tomsred]

You talk about Hamilton like he's not hitting and it's the second week in April. He has sucked all season and this is the second week of August. I don't believe that you can use the phrase "at the moment" to describe a situation that has existed for more than four months of the season.

I think the organization committed themselves to Hamilton for the long haul.  You don't give someone a five year contract, then pull the plug after 4 months, it very rarely happens.  $125M is a very serious commitment, I would think they would exhaust everything possible to get results and payback from Hamilton, that includes writing off this year, and giving him another big chance next year.  You can't just keep eating contracts, that's a very, very bad precedent.  If they can get his engine started the payback could be terrific.  Right now I think his engine is flooded.

[EDinTUSTIN]

Like I said in another thread ... Do you believe that's Mike's decision?

I haven't gotten involved in either thread, but I have read both. Of course it is Mike's decision, who else would be deciding the lineup card? That is the responsibility of the field manager, not the general manager, or team president. Dipoto has made some serious mistakes in player acquisitions and scouting (which the gm helps to oversee). However, I doubt he tells Sosh where to place players in the BO.

[Troll Daddy]

I haven't gotten involved in either thread, but I have read both. Of course it is Mike's decision, who else would be deciding the lineup card? That is the responsibility of the field manager, not the general manager, or team president. Dipoto has made some serious mistakes in player acquisitions and scouting (which the gm helps to oversee). However, I doubt he tells Sosh where to place players in the BO.

I think he has more input than you believe. Dipoto is Mike's superior and Hamilton is Dipoto's guy. What is it about that ... that you don't get?

I remember hearing an interview before the season by Dipoto that he was suggesting that Aybar would be batting second. He does get involved with the lineups.

[Lou Spirito]

I've only followed the team closely the past couple of years after moving back to OC. But it seems to me that Soch was much more involved with player acquisition when Reagins was GM. Since Dipoto took the GM role, the decline has clearly sharpened over the past two seasons. I think Sosh has a genuine feel for team chemistry that Dipoto will never have. There are some things sabermetrics simply can't quantify and in the end this a game played on the field, not a spreadsheet.

[Troll Daddy]

I've only followed the team closely the past couple of years after moving back to OC. But it seems to me that Soch was much more involved with player acquisition when Reagins was GM. Since Dipoto took the GM role, the decline has clearly sharpened over the past two seasons. I think Sosh has a genuine feel for team chemistry that Dipoto will never have. There are some things sabermetrics simply can't quantify and in the end this a game played on the field, not a spreadsheet.

BRAVO

[Torridd]

This has probably been discussed in one of the scioscia threads, but I didn't read them all. Sue me.

But I ask because people here say it's not scioscias fault the team is doing so poorly, therefore he shouldn't be fired. If that's the case, why do teams fire managers?

Teams fire managers for many reasons, most which have nothing to do with someone being a "bad" manager. I think most times the welcome has been worn and the team is not doing well.

 

Good manager - communicates well with players and media, has certain ground rules, players perform fundamental plays, doesn't throw players nor staff under bus, willing to make changes when strategies aren't working

 

I don't think losing makes one a bad manager, but if a manager wins it's hard to argue that he's not doing many things right.

[Homebrewer]

These same speculative arguments have been taking place on this board, and other boards before this one existed, since Steve Finely was stinking it up in CF back in 2004. The have spanned multiple GM's and many players for nearly a decade.
The ONLY constant name in these "who is responsible for what" arguments...is one Mike Scioscia.
For that fact alone, it is way past time for a change.

[tomsred]

These same speculative arguments have been taking place on this board, and other boards before this one existed, since Steve Finely was stinking it up in CF back in 2004. The have spanned multiple GM's and many players for nearly a decade.

The ONLY constant name in these "who is responsible for what" arguments...is one Mike Scioscia.

For that fact alone, it is way past time for a change.

You're right Homebrewer, and we should replace him with Tony Gwynn.  Then he can hire Don Baylor as the hitting coach, Mo Vaughn as the bench coach (he's very familiar with the dugout), Bobby Cox as the pitching coach, and then just go ahead and put buffet tables in the first and third base coaching boxes.

[stormngt]

This has probably been discussed in one of the scioscia threads, but I didn't read them all. Sue me.

But I ask because people here say it's not scioscias fault the team is doing so poorly, therefore he shouldn't be fired. If that's the case, why do teams fire managers?

 

Scioscia would probably be fired this year if he didn't have his contract. (and he still might) What I don't get about people who hate Scioscia on this board is that they think they are playing with monopoly money.  25 million dollars is a lot to swallow.  And it is stupid to swallow it if it won't make a difference.  So it is important to find out if Scioscia is preventing this team from making the playoffs or is it personal decisions.  I think its been personal decisions.

[stormngt]

If manager has been at the same job for too long, it is possible that maybe subconsciously (or even consciously) he may have lost the energy level for the job that he had in the early years.

In another thread, I cited another example, former Twins' manager Tom Kelly and current Twins' manager Ron Gardenhire.

Both had a good first decade of success like Scioscia had, but saw their team wane after that. 

 

This is one of the few legit arguments justifying a dismissal of Scioscia.  It is possible that he may have been here too long and he lost connection to the players.  However, it is impossible for us, fans to really know this.  Only people close to the club house would know.

[stormngt]

Mattingly's job was questionable (by a few) for a couple months.

Scioscia has been hanging by a thread, and questioned by nearly everyone (short of a few people around here ....)

For 4 long miserable years...

Hardly a valid comparison.

 

Four long years?  Try fifteen long years 1986-2001!  And the Angels fired many managers and it still didn't get them into the playoffs.  So be careful what you ask for.  You may think Scioscia is the problem and he just may not be!

[stormngt]

  

 

The team has not consistently had subpar talent.

 

 

We finally have someone who see's the truth.  The fact is that the Angels have not had the talent to win the division the last few years.

 

We had Abreu and Matsui as our middle order lineup in 2010

We added Wells the year after

Only last year did it look like we had the talent.  However, Pujols stunk at the beginning of the year and our starting pitching stunk in August.  And our bullpen has stunk every year since!