Brian Kenny (MLB Network) on the Angels young core & Mike Trout's future

[Chuck]

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

We really need detmers and and Silseth to take that next step in the rotation.I think Silseth has that middle of the rotation upside, while Detmer could be a good #2. The stuff is there for these guys.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

We really need detmers and and Silseth to take that next step in the rotation.I think Silseth has that middle of the rotation upside, while Detmer could be a good #2. The stuff is there for these guys.

Wouldn’t discount Daniel being a guy who steps in and immediately gives them consistent starts and a decent 4.25 ERA ball either. He feels like one of those types of starters who comes in and just is solid right out of the gate.

[greginpsca]

Pitching, both starting and relief, will determine the success or failure of the team in 24.

[Chuck]

Sandoval, Detmers and Canning have to be more consistent and man, I don’t know what to do or think of when it comes to Tyler Anderson. 

[Angelsjunky]

I am more optimistic about Schanuel, Neto and O'Hoppe than I am Adell and Moniak. I know, no shit. I see the first three as having a solid floor of quality regular - that in a worst-case scenario, they still produce 2-3 WAR a year, all with the chances of being borderline star types.

Adell and Moniak have a floor of, well, sucking. I'm not convinced either will be more than an occasionally flashy platoon type. Both could be more, though I see Moniak's upside as the lowest of the five, unless he has a "walk satori."

Edited November 14, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[totdprods]

Wouldn't be surprised if the Halos are at least seeing what Moniak (lesser case Adell) are fetching in trade chats as well. I like what Moniak brings but you almost have to consider if he's a flip while he's hot idea hasn't been discussed. 

FWIW, the baseball trade value site has Moniak and Tyler Glasnow comparable value-wise...of course it would take more than him, but could be foundation of an interesting deal. Harold Ramirez would be a good get too.

Edited November 14, 2023 by totdprods

[Second Base]

Part of being an Angels fan is continually counting on "the next generation" to step up and be a young core to build around. 

I'm not saying Neto, Schanuel, O'Hoppe, etc.. aren't the real deal. I think they are. But it takes SO MUCH MORE than that. You need volume AND upside of you're going to build around a young core. 

Many of us remember Salmon, Anderson, Edmomds, Glaus and Erstad. But not as many remember just how many didn't pan out in that same period of time. And that was the most fortunate period of Angels development. 

That 2009 draft class was incredible, but was also sandwiches between the disappointments of Wood/Kotch/MacPherson and the subsequent selections that included Kaleb Cowart, Taylor Lindsay and Chevy Clarke. 

The Angels minor league system lacks depth and upside. And the weapons that it does have, aren't kicking the major league door down. That's why I support a rebuild. 

[totdprods]

15 hours ago, Second Base said:

Part of being an Angels fan is continually counting on "the next generation" to step up and be a young core to build around. 

I'm not saying Neto, Schanuel, O'Hoppe, etc.. aren't the real deal. I think they are. But it takes SO MUCH MORE than that. You need volume AND upside of you're going to build around a young core. 

Many of us remember Salmon, Anderson, Edmomds, Glaus and Erstad. But not as many remember just how many didn't pan out in that same period of time. And that was the most fortunate period of Angels development. 

That 2009 draft class was incredible, but was also sandwiches between the disappointments of Wood/Kotch/MacPherson and the subsequent selections that included Kaleb Cowart, Taylor Lindsay and Chevy Clarke. 

The Angels minor league system lacks depth and upside. And the weapons that it does have, aren't kicking the major league door down. That's why I support a rebuild. 

And I don't think they even need to go really far to accomplish this.

Still think they need to move Sandoval for an MLB-ready young hitter, a la Sal Frelick or Jordan Westburg or Garrett Mitchell, Vaughn Grissom. Sign someone like a Jack Flaherty to hopefully hold down that spot with a 4.25 ERA. 

Flip Estevez for the best prospect you can get, and sign another non-closer FA RP to take his place. Hopefully he replicates what Estevez did and becomes mid-year trade bait himself. 
If you can move Drury now, go for it. Go ahead and sign an Anderson or Merrifield or Urshela or Kiner-Falefa to a reasonable deal and have them serve as some insurance. Thaiss can get some work at the corners too, plus you've maybe got someone like Jordan Westburg now in the fold. 

Sign a Montas or Severino maybe a Giolito to a one-year deal and hope they can be flipped a la Syndergaard in '22. Let Perry keep drafting the way he has been, and you've added someone from the Sandoval trade, Estevez trade, Drury trade, the draft, and whoever is flipped at the deadline on one-year deals and you're in great shape headed into '25 IMO, with money to spend next winter.

[Erstad Grit]

We have 3 or 4 inexpensive #3 type SP IMO.

That's a really nice core.

We just can't seem to land a top of the rotation guy. I really thought Cole was coming here. 

[Tyler]

If you rely on Sandoval as being anything more than a 5th starter, then you're in trouble. He needs to go.

[angelsnationtalk]

12 hours ago, totdprods said:

And I don't think they even need to go really far to accomplish this.

Still think they need to move Sandoval for an MLB-ready young hitter, a la Sal Frelick or Jordan Westburg or Garrett Mitchell, Vaughn Grissom. Sign someone like a Jack Flaherty to hopefully hold down that spot with a 4.25 ERA. 
Flip Estevez for the best prospect you can get, and sign another non-closer FA RP to take his place. Hopefully he replicates what Estevez did and becomes mid-year trade bait himself. 
If you can move Drury now, go for it. Go ahead and sign an Anderson or Merrifield or Urshela or Kiner-Falefa to a reasonable deal and have them serve as some insurance. Thaiss can get some work at the corners too, plus you've maybe got someone like Jordan Westburg now in the fold. 

Sign a Montas or Severino maybe a Giolito to a one-year deal and hope they can be flipped a la Syndergaard in '22. Let Perry keep drafting the way he has been, and you've added someone from the Sandoval trade, Estevez trade, Drury trade, the draft, and whoever is flipped at the deadline on one-year deals and you're in great shape headed into '25 IMO, with money to spend next winter.

I love this idea, I really do. And I fully endorse it....

But this scenario is the kind where you present this to Perry in the WAR room with Arte sitting in the corner and when he hears this he jumps up saying " no no no, we don't need to rebuild, we're so close to winning I just need to spend $200+M on a 31+ year old"

[Stradling]

12 hours ago, Tyler said:

If you rely on Sandoval as being anything more than a 5th starter, then you're in trouble. He needs to go.

He had a bad year. The two years previous were very good. Oh and he’s 27. So he is more than a 5 and if you can get a quality player in return you trade him. If you can’t then hope the new regime gets him to be more consistent. 

[totdprods]

13 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I love this idea, I really do. And I fully endorse it....

But this scenario is the kind where you present this to Perry in the WAR room with Arte sitting in the corner and when he hears this he jumps up saying " no no no, we don't need to rebuild, we're so close to winning I just need to spend $200+M on a 31+ year old"

Let’s just do that next winter Arte.

I know the past is easy to point to but it’s not like he can’t change. Last winter he wanted Trea Turner and Perry talked him down. 

I truly think this team can be very well-positioned to contend annually starting as soon as 2025, but tempering expectations this year and ‘rebuilding’ for a season would be the best way to ensure that.

[angelsnationtalk]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Let’s just do that next winter Arte.

I know the past is easy to point to but it’s not like he can’t change. Last winter he wanted Trea Turner and Perry talked him down. 

I truly think this team can be very well-positioned to contend annually starting as soon as 2025, but tempering expectations this year and ‘rebuilding’ for a season would be the best way to ensure that.

He did a good job by listening, but my gut tells me he thinks he made a mistake doing it while watching Turner tear in up in the postseason and the Angels miss the playoffs.

[Angel Oracle]

16 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sandoval, Detmers and Canning have to be more consistent and man, I don’t know what to do or think of when it comes to Tyler Anderson. 

Trade him and half his salary to a NL team.   That’s where he had his breakthrough season.   Use that extra $6.5 million AAV through 2025 towards a good set up man.

[Angel Oracle]

I’m okay with one more year of building, as long as they finish over .500 finally and contend at least until beginning of September.

But no bunch of late July deals like this season, just continue to build and convince Moreno that they are getting closer to being a consistently solid team.

[Angel Oracle]

15 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I am more optimistic about Schanuel, Neto and O'Hoppe than I am Adell and Moniak. I know, no shit. I see the first three as having a solid floor of quality regular - that in a worst-case scenario, they still produce 2-3 WAR a year, all with the chances of being borderline star types.

Adell and Moniak have a floor of, well, sucking. I'm not convinced either will be more than an occasionally flashy platoon type. Both could be more, though I see Moniak's upside as the lowest of the five, unless he has a "walk satori."

I actually think Adell and Moniak would be a solid enough platoon at one of the OF positions, but that’s as long as the other 2 OF spots are getting good production.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Trade him and half his salary to a NL team.   That’s where he had his breakthrough season.   Use that extra $6.5 million AAV through 2025 towards a good set up man.

Trickiest thing with Anderson is the surplus of FA pitching. I actually think trading him at some point isn’t that far-fetched. Every time he’s available in recent years, there’s a ton of teams interested, and though he was pretty bad last year, he did have a couple decent stretches. His final stats were bad, but also uncharacteristically bad. If he returns to even just a 4.25-4.50ish he offers plenty of utility, and the contract is more than reasonable enough for any MLB team to basically absorb half if not all the cost. 

The only reason I don’t really want to trade him now is because it’d be a big sell-low. My expectations for the Angels in ‘24 are not high. I don’t mind risking him sucking and cutting bait halfway through the year because of that. But I also think there’s a chance he runs up 15 good starts to begin the year and actually fetches something decent near the deadline. Would rather take that gamble and try to sell high, unless we REALLY need to save money this winter.

[Chuck]

15 hours ago, totdprods said:

And I don't think they even need to go really far to accomplish this.

Still think they need to move Sandoval for an MLB-ready young hitter, a la Sal Frelick or Jordan Westburg or Garrett Mitchell, Vaughn Grissom. Sign someone like a Jack Flaherty to hopefully hold down that spot with a 4.25 ERA. 

Flip Estevez for the best prospect you can get, and sign another non-closer FA RP to take his place. Hopefully he replicates what Estevez did and becomes mid-year trade bait himself. 
If you can move Drury now, go for it. Go ahead and sign an Anderson or Merrifield or Urshela or Kiner-Falefa to a reasonable deal and have them serve as some insurance. Thaiss can get some work at the corners too, plus you've maybe got someone like Jordan Westburg now in the fold. 

Sign a Montas or Severino maybe a Giolito to a one-year deal and hope they can be flipped a la Syndergaard in '22. Let Perry keep drafting the way he has been, and you've added someone from the Sandoval trade, Estevez trade, Drury trade, the draft, and whoever is flipped at the deadline on one-year deals and you're in great shape headed into '25 IMO, with money to spend next winter.

I think I can get 100% behind this game plan. 

[Slegnaac]

56 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I’m okay with one more year of building, as long as they finish over .500 finally and contend at least until beginning of September.

But no bunch of late July deals like this season, just continue to build and convince Moreno that they are getting closer to being a consistently solid team.

I think the late July deals were the attempt to show Ohtani they were serious about getting to the playoffs.  

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

I think the late July deals were the attempt to show Ohtani they were serious about getting to the playoffs.  

That was embarrassing.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

I think I can get 100% behind this game plan. 

Doubling down with this plan, the ideal would be that Luis Rengifo or Taylor Ward have a breakout year and turn into a possible big deadline piece this year or next. We don’t *have* to deal them, but acquiring another young bat via Sandoval would open some flexibility in dealing one of those arb. eligible guys at the right sell high, which would then help push a deeper rebuild without having to do a total tear down. 

[Angels 1961]

I trade Taylor Ward, Drury, Carlos E and ask Trout does he want to be part  of rebuild around young players or not. Angel's need a new direction this off season. Sign Anderson, Montas, Severino and other low tier FA. Hopefully some bounce back and have some trade value. This off season no big contract signings.

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

That was embarrassing.

At a trade deadline,one should be looking for that one or 2 guys that could help them get over the top. But when you bring in 6 or more guys, you should be selling.