From 1-30, MLB Pipeline ranks each club's farm system

[Dtwncbad]

16 minutes ago, NrM said:

Arte would never be willing to rebuild. He had many opportunities to go that route in the past. I don't think he cares about putting a winning competitive team on the field. He just wants to turn a profit. Rebuilding for 2-3 years would hinder that.

 

Honest exercise:

Jot out on a piece of paper who you think the starters are for 2024/2025, including the rotation.

Look at those names and their ages.

Do you honestly think the Angels need to start a rebuild, or have they mostly already rebuilt and need to strategically add a couple of performers to now actually complete?

[NrM]

10 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Honest exercise:

Jot out on a piece of paper who you think the starters are for 2024/2025, including the rotation.

Look at those names and their ages.

Do you honestly think the Angels need to start a rebuild, or have they mostly already rebuilt and need to strategically add a couple of performers to now actually complete?

Without Ohtani? yeah we need to rebuild. Sure our offense might be serviceable if healthy(big if) without him but the pitching staff is a mess. Both starting and pen.

The depth(which we never seem to have) normally comes from the farmsystem. Neglecting it for so many years takes it's toll.

 

I think it's pretty obvious though? Am I taking crazy pills? We couldn't even win with 2 generational talents and now we're losing one and the other is getting older and slowing down.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

you trade for a bunch of marginal upgrades and then most of them don't contribute much. It's not surprising. 

That’s why they traded a bunch of marginal prospects. 

[jsnpritchett]

11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Honest exercise:

Jot out on a piece of paper who you think the starters are for 2024/2025, including the rotation.

Look at those names and their ages.

Do you honestly think the Angels need to start a rebuild, or have they mostly already rebuilt and need to strategically add a couple of performers to now actually complete?

Ok, I'll play.  For 2025, if Ohtani doesn't sign:

C  O'Hoppe

1B Schanuel? (If not him, there's really no one else in the system who's currently a solid option for '25, let alone '24)

2B Paris? (If not him, see note above about Schanuel)

SS Neto

3B Rendon (lol)

OF Ward/Trout/Adell/Adams (??)

DH Adell/Rendon (????)

Rotation:  Anderson/Detmers/Sandoval/Silseth/Canning

That's...not a great team, most likely.  To even be competitive, you have to assume a) health and b) more development/progress from some of the young guys than we've seen so far, plus some smart free agent additions or trades.

[jsnpritchett]

3 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s why they traded a bunch of marginal prospects. 

We can keep going 'round and 'round on this, but we're getting nowhere.  You don't think they gave up anything and you think their moves were smart (or at least rational).  I think the opposite.  Got it.

Edited August 17, 2023 by jsnpritchett

[jsnpritchett]

26 minutes ago, NrM said:

Without Ohtani? yeah we need to rebuild. Sure our offense might be serviceable if healthy(big if) without him but the pitching staff is a mess. Both starting and pen.

The depth(which we never seem to have) normally comes from the farmsystem. Neglecting it for so many years takes it's toll.

 

I think it's pretty obvious though? Am I taking crazy pills? We couldn't even win with 2 generational talents and now we're losing one and the other is getting older and slowing down.

I must be taking them, too, then.  I genuinely don't understand people who are like, "Oh, it's no big deal, we'll be fine. Look at what we have." 

[Dtwncbad]

11 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Ok, I'll play.  For 2025, if Ohtani doesn't sign:

C  O'Hoppe

1B Schanuel? (If not him, there's really no one else in the system who's currently a solid option for '25, let alone '24)

2B Paris? (If not him, see note above about Schanuel)

SS Neto

3B Rendon (lol)

OF Ward/Trout/Adell/Adams (??)

DH Adell/Rendon (????)

Rotation:  Anderson/Detmers/Sandoval/Silseth/Canning

That's...not a great team, most likely.  To even be competitive, you have to assume a) health and b) more development/progress from some of the young guys than we've seen so far, plus some smart free agent additions or trades.

That’s not a “great” team without Ohtani or without some additional talent added to that roster.

But that’s a core that represent a “rebuild” that has happpened over the last couple of years, one that puts a healthy number of young controllable players on the field who you hope improve into better than just passable.

Add Ohtani and that team competes.

With no Ohtani, you have to add one or two impact players to compete.  When you are at a point where you need to add a couple of impact players to compete, you don’t tear it down, you add the impact players to compete.

So, yes we disagree.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dtwncbad

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

you have to assume a) health and b) more development/progress from some of the young guys than we've seen so far, plus some smart free agent additions or trades.

Also, if you rebuild you also need health, development from the players you acquire and some smart free agent additions.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

Also, if you rebuild you also need health, development from the players you acquire and some smart free agent additions.

Well, of course.  I didn't say otherwise.

[Jay]

Not that the Angels are considering rebuilding but by letting Ohtani walk, the Angels will be in a rebuild mode for all intents and purposes. That just leaves a gaping hole in the team.

The fact that they will get very little in return will make the process more difficult.

An aging Trout and Rendon doesn't make things any easier.

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

8 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Well, of course.  I didn't say otherwise.

Right I’m just saying citing those things as negatives in rolling with this core seems improper when that’s the case regardless.

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

Right I’m just saying citing those things as negatives in rolling with this core seems improper when that’s the case regardless.

I pointed it out for the guys the Angels currently have because of the lack of depth within the system.  If the options I listed for '25 aren't healthy or don't develop rapidly, then that puts even more pressure on any external acquisitions, since there won't be any other strong internal options.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

That just leaves a gaping hole in the team.

I think every team every year has at least one or two significant holes to fill.  Having a couple of “gaping holes” doesn’t mean you should tear it down and rebuild.

You decide on a rebuild versus an add what you need strategy by looking at the overall age and overall cost of the core you have.

This team isn’t going to “rebuild” when they have what looks like good young players at that many positions and that many starting rotation spots.

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I think every team every year has at least one or two significant holes to fill.  Having a couple of “gaping holes” doesn’t mean you should tear it down and rebuild.

You decide on a rebuild versus an add what you need strategy by looking at the overall age and overall cost of the core you have.

This team isn’t going to “rebuild” when they have what looks like good young players at that many positions and that many starting rotation spots.

Usually a "rebuild" starts with trading a star player (as opposed to building around that player). If Ohtani leaves it will have the same effect. But "rebuild" likely has various definitions.

[NrM]

top rated farms 2015-2023. Only team not to make it on the list is the Angels.

 

 

 

[DMVol]

3 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

We can keep going 'round and 'round on this, but we're getting nowhere.  You don't think they gave up anything and you think there moves were smart (or at least rational).  I think the opposite.  Got it.

Quero is on the top 100 lists I’ve seen…..that isn’t a marginal prospect….Bush was the Angels #2, he’s now the White Sox #9….pretty good prospect…

[AngelsLakersFan]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The whole reason the incentive exists is to prevent teams from manipulating service time. I’m the sure the union would have a fit if the Angels did this, let alone the message it would send to every other player, in and out of the organization.  
 

You guys are overthinking it. 

The rule is the rule. This is what the players negotiated for so give the players what they want and take advantage of it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It’s pretty easy to replace the caliber of prospects the Angels traded. Even in the case of Quero, I’ve heard the Angels didn’t believe he could stick at catcher and didn’t have the bat to play 1B.

Time will tell. 

Even if the Angels don't think highly of Quero he is a top 100 prospect and they could likely find some team that is high on him to swap prospects with.

[Inside Pitch]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:11 AM, Jeff Fletcher said:

You’d have to be pretty certain he would win ROY for this be even remotely worth him missing out on the experience of playing a month of major league games. 

It's kind of a moot point isnt it?  With the time he's still expected to be on his rehab and regular off days it seems like won't reach whatever plateau..  Feels like it's more of a lucky perk than an actual plan.

I don't have any real opinion either way.  Whatever ends up being best for the team is fine by me.

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's kind of a moot point isnt it?  With the time he's still expected to be on his rehab and regular off days it seems like won't reach whatever plateau..  Feels like it's more of a lucky perk than an actual plan.

I don't have any real opinion either way.  Whatever ends up being best for the team is fine by me.

He already has 31 days, if my math is correct. (Don’t forget he came up last year.) So he just needs to be active for 14 more days to lose his rookie status for 2024. 

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He already has 31 days, if my math is correct. (Don’t forget he came up last year.) So he just needs to be active for 14 more days to lose his rookie status for 2024. 

Yeah, I don't really know how they work it.  The Roster Resource thing used to show it by years and games/days and has him at 0.008, so I don't have any clue.

[Jeff Fletcher]

23 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah, I don't really know how they work it.  The Roster Resource thing used to show it by years and games/days and has him at 0.008, so I don't have any clue.

They don't update that in real time. That's what he started the season with.

In any case, now Nolan Schanuel can win the ROY. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

In any case, now Nolan Schanuel can win the ROY. 

Yeah but if he did, the team might not be eligible for any compensation because of the whole -- must be on two prospect lists thing.

Would be the most Angels weird luck thing EVER.... 

[tdawg87]

19 hours ago, NrM said:

top rated farms 2015-2023. Only team not to make it on the list is the Angels.

 

 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah but if he did, the team might not be eligible for any compensation because of the whole -- must be on two prospect lists thing.

Would be the most Angels weird luck thing EVER.... 

If he does half decent in the big leagues I assume that will vault him onto the top 100 lists going into 2024.