Is it just me or does it feel like the season is slipping away from us?

[Farmbuildingfan]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sorry logic eludes you. 

If logic eluded me I would not be able to recognize your logic.

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

20 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It’s called Groundhog Day, and being sick of the streak of losing seasons.

We feel like Bill Murray.

And two of them being one below 500.  Nice page turning, Sosh.

 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

If logic eluded me I would not be able to recognize your logic.

Touché 

[T-angel]

50 minutes ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

I admit I admire Stradling's unwavering logic.

If most folks witnessed a coin flip coming up heads ten consecutive times, some of us would just presume the 11th flip would be heads again. Stradling would correctly remind us that there is still a 50% chance flip 11 would be tails because flip 11 has nothing to do with the previous 10 flips

I have a hard time believing in that logic because we are dealing with human beings and the results of one game (good and bad) do have an effect going forward on future games. If it didn' t than it would have been mathematically improbable to have gone on the type of losing streak the Angels went on last year that tanked the season. There were definitely exterior factors (power struggle between coach and front office) that effected the play on the field, but also there were some very tough losses where instances of sure victory was snatched away at the last moment (i.e. that one game in Philadelphia comes to mind). Those have effects on future games (anyone who followed the team could sense the bad mojo). The Angel players wouldn't be human if it didn't effect them. That's why I always feel its crucial to try your best to win games you are up 8-2 with 3 innings left to go. Its crucial not to lose games when you are leading 4-1 where you hit three homers off the starting pitcher to only turn around and let the other team score 6 runs in an inning.

The context of those losses matter and usually a mature team that knows how to win will turn the page faster. However, that's not this team right now. They're still trying to learn how to win and they might get there some time this year. There's still a half a season left. The Nationals and Braves learned in time to win the Word Series a few years back. So its not impossible to have something click mid-season. Crossing-fingers and hoping for the best.

[BTH]

8 hours ago, Slegnaac said:

No David Fletcher?

forgot about him

[Farmbuildingfan]

Always hoping but never expecting

[REDneck]

1 hour ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

I admit I admire Stradling's unwavering logic.

If most folks witnessed a coin flip coming up heads ten consecutive times, some of us would just presume the 11th flip would be heads again. Stradling would correctly remind us that there is still a 50% chance flip 11 would be tails because flip 11 has nothing to do with the previous 10 flips

 

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Sorry logic eludes you. 

Holy shit!

You're even contentious with someone taking up for you.

[Stradling]

26 minutes ago, REDneck said:

 

Holy shit!

You're even contentious with someone taking up for you.

 

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Touché 

 

[AngelsFanSince86]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

Core of the team is the same the last two years. That’s about it. 

That's not it though. The fact that the Angels have never fully committed to rebuilding or going for it has effected the team each and every year. So despite the fact that the manager, GM, and the overall roster has fluctuated over the last 8 years, their predicament has remained the same: a farm system too barren to either consistently produce MLB talent or to expendable trade talent; a major league roster that is top heavy and an owner unwilling to open the checkbook to fill out the roster the way it needs to be when you have so many holes and $70-100M+ is going to 3-4 players (something that has been pretty consistent over the last 8 years even though the names of those players has changed). 

Now, Perry is better at drafting and better at trading than the last 2 GMs so he's been able to improve the roster via trade without really hurting the farm system. Simultaneously, Arte expanded the budget cap by a bit this year which has allowed Perry to fill the roster with more legitimate depth than in the past. However, the core issues remain the same. Still not enough roster depth because their farm system is still rather barren. Still have several holes in the roster because although the payroll was increased this year, it still wasn't enough. 

Personally I think under Perry they are slowly heading in the right direction. If he'd been the GM for the last 5-6 years I think they would be in a great position right now. He's slowly building the farm despite the fact that the team has been consistently mediocre and he's much better at signing depth than Eppler was. The problem is it's too little too late. They are potentially going to lose a 10+ WAR player for nothing. No playoffs, no prospects from a trade. They are also potentially losing a 10 WAR player in trout because he's seemingly started his decline. Losing 12-15 WAR just like that more than cancels or whatever gains they've made as a team. But still, they'll try to win this season with Ohtani, likely fail and lose him to FA for nothing more than a compensatory pick, and next year they'll be stuck trying to replace their ace and their best hitter which will cost more to do than Ohtani cost this year, and as long as Arte still owns the team the budget will remain too low to effectively fill out the roster and the cycle of mediocrity will continue.

[Angels 1961]

It's not just you.

[Halo in Chicago]

Yes it feels like it is slipping away. Sure it’s a long season, teams are streaky, baseball is unpredictable etc. but we are losing winnable games and looking inept in doing so. Should have been building a cushion against the Rockies and Sox and should have beaten at least one of the D-Backs back end scrubs. Now we need to make up ground against the meat of the schedule. 
 

Hopefully Neto and Drury are back soon and Sandoval remembers how to pitch… 

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

That's not it though. The fact that the Angels have never fully committed to rebuilding or going for it has effected the team each and every year. So despite the fact that the manager, GM, and the overall roster has fluctuated over the last 8 years, their predicament has remained the same: a farm system too barren to either consistently produce MLB talent or to expendable trade talent; a major league roster that is top heavy and an owner unwilling to open the checkbook to fill out the roster the way it needs to be when you have so many holes and $70-100M+ is going to 3-4 players (something that has been pretty consistent over the last 8 years even though the names of those players has changed). 

Now, Perry is better at drafting and better at trading than the last 2 GMs so he's been able to improve the roster via trade without really hurting the farm system. Simultaneously, Arte expanded the budget cap by a bit this year which has allowed Perry to fill the roster with more legitimate depth than in the past. However, the core issues remain the same. Still not enough roster depth because their farm system is still rather barren. Still have several holes in the roster because although the payroll was increased this year, it still wasn't enough. 

Personally I think under Perry they are slowly heading in the right direction. If he'd been the GM for the last 5-6 years I think they would be in a great position right now. He's slowly building the farm despite the fact that the team has been consistently mediocre and he's much better at signing depth than Eppler was. The problem is it's too little too late. They are potentially going to lose a 10+ WAR player for nothing. No playoffs, no prospects from a trade. They are also potentially losing a 10 WAR player in trout because he's seemingly started his decline. Losing 12-15 WAR just like that more than cancels or whatever gains they've made as a team. But still, they'll try to win this season with Ohtani, likely fail and lose him to FA for nothing more than a compensatory pick, and next year they'll be stuck trying to replace their ace and their best hitter which will cost more to do than Ohtani cost this year, and as long as Arte still owns the team the budget will remain too low to effectively fill out the roster and the cycle of mediocrity will continue.

A couple things, you are obviously correct in a lot of things you said, but there was no path to a complete rebuild once Dipoto was hired. Our tradeable assets were Trout, Simmons, a year of Calhoun a year of Richards. There was one year where Cam Bedrosian gets you a nice return. But if you are a rebuilding team you hold onto a young Richards.  If you trade Trout in a rebuild you are never acquiring Ohtani.  Bottom line is they had to draft and develop better and they didn’t. 
This year the team was built different and has a different manager, different hitting coach and has the ability to reach down to the minors for depth. So if this team fails it’s different than the previous years because it has different players, and it won’t be because 5-10 years ago we failed on the field.  

[Jay]

So the common denominator is Moreno.

[Chuck]

20 hours ago, Blarg said:

Was this Reggie Willits? Who did this .GIF? I can't remember the context of this play. 

Hilarious. 

[Slegnaac]

After the All Star Break there will be 71 regular season games remaining.

The marathon will be 56% complete.

[Jay]

  

11 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Was this Reggie Willits? Who did this .GIF? I can't remember the context of this play. 

Hilarious. 

I think it's Hank Conger.

 

 

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

So the common denominator is Moreno.

Dodgers payroll last year was #1 in MLB. Ours was almost $100 million less. Dodgers can afford Ohtani and will get him if he's available. We can afford him but Arte might not have the will to invest the money.

 

[Chico]

The Angels simply can't compete with the upper echelon teams and they usually tie series against mediocre teams. They might sweep the A's and their ilk but this s*** is going nowhere fast. 

[fan_since79]

Trout's numbers are troubling.

.260 BA, .853 OPS.

At 31 years old he draws comparison to Pujols after we got him. Compare the drop-off in Albert's OPS beginning at that age. Of course it's only half a season, so Mike could come out of and be the Trout we know and love, but his struggles are still troubling as we begin July. Is it seven more years?

[HeavenlyHalos]

I still believe in this team, the talent is there. Maybe I'm an idiot. 

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

So the common denominator is Moreno.

Sure but the GMs still spend money and I highly doubt Arte told Minasian to get Loup or Tepera or Syndergaard. He didn’t tell Eppler to sign Allen or trade for Bundy. He didn’t tell Dipoto to sign the four pitchers that failed that year. Nor did Arte tell them who to draft.  So yes Arte has failed as an owner, miserably the last decade.  But blaming him For everything is lazy. 

[OregonLAA]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

Again if the roster and leadership is different than a few years ago then it’s completely irrelevant. Logically you understand that but your fanatical side won’t let you rationalize it. 

One thing is the same though. And unless that changes this team will sadly probably never do anything. This is our best chance with 2 of the best players in the history of the sport and it’s still pretty iffy

[OregonLAA]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Sure but the GMs still spend money and I highly doubt Arte told Minasian to get Loup or Tepera or Syndergaard. He didn’t tell Eppler to sign Allen or trade for Bundy. He didn’t tell Dipoto to sign the four pitchers that failed that year. Nor did Arte tell them who to draft.  So yes Arte has failed as an owner, miserably the last decade.  But blaming him For everything is lazy. 

He refuses to invest in the minors. That’s the biggest flaw. He’d rather be responsible for the worst signings EVER. He’s a bad owner who cares about dollars and not the product on the field

[Farmbuildingfan]

The frustrating constant that is an independant variable every  year with no logical cause and effect are the rampant injuries that I would guess cost the Angels at least ten games a year and seemingly always affect the hottest players at the most inopportune times. Give us O' Hoppe, Neto, Moore, Joyce etc.  and  the Angels have eight or more more wins.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, OregonLAA said:

He refuses to invest in the minors. That’s the biggest flaw. He’d rather be responsible for the worst signings EVER. He’s a bad owner who cares about dollars and not the product on the field

He cares about both. Again it’s lazy to say he doesn’t care about the product on the field. He obviously does he just sucks at it.