Keith Law's Top 100....

[Chuck]

14 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

O'Hoppe will be assessed in spring training. If he looks ripe, he'll platoon with Stassi. If he looks like he could use a few more reps, he'll be sent to AAA and be back within a month or two after we all get sick of Godoy or Wallach. 

That said, I do like the idea of seeing Thaiss for the first month, as insurance for Walsh in case his struggles continue into this year. Still think Thaiss could hit reasonably well if given consistent playing time.

I agree with this. 

Also, Law's assessment of O'Hoppe's arm strength tells me he's never seen on damn game that O'Hoppe has played in. 

"with average-ish arm strength"..  I think Law is a glorified armchair GM that doesn't have any scouting in his blood or he's just to lazy to put in the work to see these players he's ranking. 

[Taylor]

11 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

No, he's there to replace Rendon once he gets hurt on April 10th.

Fixed

[Rico]

We're doing that thing again where we're pushing our top prospects up too soon. 

[Taylor]

24 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Fixed

Actually, AJ, you're right. He will get injured on May 10th.

 

 

After getting injured on April 10th and coming back on May 2nd.

[Chuck]

4 minutes ago, Rico said:

We're doing that thing again where we're pushing our top prospects up too soon. 

Who is we? 

I don't think anyone is complaining about the ranking, just the scouting reports. 

Contrast what Law said to what I reported in my interview article with O'Hoppe and what Baseball America said:

"He has a plus, accurate arm with a quick release and frequently records sub-1.9 second pop times on throws to second base."

[Angelsjunky]

28 minutes ago, Rico said:

We're doing that thing again where we're pushing our top prospects up too soon. 

The Angels did that with Adell, and maybe Silseth and Marsh, but I don't think this is necessarily historically the case. So it was a window. But every prospect is different, and just because Adell was called up too soon - under unusual circumstances - doesn't mean O'Hoppe isn't ready. 

I don't think we can simply say "all prospects need X number of games in AA, Y in AAA." Some can make the jump straight from AA to the majors; AAA is usually about fine-tuning and/or waiting for an opportunity. Maybe O'Hoppe doesn't need fine-tuning, or no more than just adjusting to the majors. I mean, there's an opportunity now. 

But again, I'm sure they'll assess him in Spring Training and make their decision with past mistakes in mind. Minasian knows there's no harm in putting him in AAA for two or three months, but on the other hand if he feels that O'Hoppe can hold his own in the majors, he's got a ton more upside than Godoy and Wallach.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I agree with this. 

Also, Law's assessment of O'Hoppe's arm strength tells me he's never seen on damn game that O'Hoppe has played in. 

That assessment is likely due to his actual CS rates -- he was better as a Trash Panda but had been sitting at around 25% at Reading then saw runners go 3-3 against him in SB attempts once he was promoted.  He caught 2 of 25 baserunners the previous season at AA+ after posting a 45.% CS rate in High A -- so, I think it would be silly to write his arm off completely -- but he's shown that his arm isn't going to make up for whatever mechanics he may be lacking.  And that's what important ... Nobody questions his pop times or mechanics behind the plate and IMO that is ultimately more important.

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

"with average-ish arm strength"..  I think Law is a glorified armchair GM that doesn't have any scouting in his blood or he's just to lazy to put in the work to see these players he's ranking. 

I thought his criticism of the Angels offseason  was ignorant, but I'd argue you're overreacting on this one. 

I think O'Hoppe has the mechanics and enough arm to eventually keep runners honest -- that should be good enough IMO.  I know the bases are getting bigger and a lot of people are yammering about how speed may become a bigger factor again -- whatever.  IMO teams are so deeply into the metrics that few will be willing to have a green light on all the time -- the math just doesn't support it.  If the worst that can be said about O'Hoppe is that his arm is average and everything else ends up being average to above average he will still end up being the best all around catcher in recent Angels history.

Honestly, I figured people would focus more on his actually being quite positive about Quero's potential to stay at C, than his potentially underrating O'Hoppe's arm.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

The Angels did that with Adell, and maybe Silseth and Marsh, but I don't think this is necessarily historically the case. So it was a window. But every prospect is different, and just because Adell was called up too soon - under unusual circumstances - doesn't mean O'Hoppe isn't ready. 

Oh Please.  Rengifo, Canning, Barria, C-Rod, Detmers, Suarez plus Adell and Silseth -- Marsh was probably the most ready of the bunch.. The Angels recent history is littered with guys who were rushed.  There are some pretty well documented reasons why but the fact remains they were all aggressively promoted both in the minors and to MLB.  The last two drafts are also full of guys who were aggressively positioned and promoted.

It's been a thing, has been for a while, and we all know why.  Hopefully the depth is getting to where the team will no longer feel the need to be as agressive.

 

[Blarg]

Most caught stealing is the pitcher delivery not the catcher's pop time or arm strength. Giving up two or three steps to runners because of delivery mechanics or not paying attention, controls what a catcher can do with the ball once it crosses the plate. 

[tdawg87]

ZIPS projects a 2.1 fWAR from O'Hoppe. For what it's worth.

I believe they're usually very conservative with their position player projections.

But he definitely shouldn't be handed the spot if he doesn't look good this spring. 

[Angelsjunky]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Oh Please.  Rengifo, Canning, Barria, C-Rod, Detmers, Suarez plus Adell and Silseth -- Marsh was probably the most ready of the bunch.. The Angels recent history is littered with guys who were rushed.  There are some pretty well documented reasons why but the fact remains they were all aggressively promoted both in the minors and to MLB.  The last two drafts are also full of guys who were aggressively positioned and promoted.

It's been a thing, has been for a while, and we all know why.  Hopefully the depth is getting to where the team will no longer feel the need to be as agressive.

 

I didn't mean to imply that those are the only players, but by "Historically the case" I meant long-term - team history beyond just recent years. I agree about recent years, thus "window," but once you go back a bit further, and it isn't as much the case.

As for the others on your list, I'm not sure I'd say all of them were rushed. If nothing else, some of them warranted a cup of coffee. I think the most egregious element is that the Angels "needed" them...that they didn't have other options, and thus were either rushed and/or kept up too long. 

I think there's a fine art to knowing when a prospect is "ready." Readiness doesn't mean peak level right away. So part of this problem has to do with fan expectation. I think it means two things: 1) Being able to hold your own as a solid major leaguer - better than replacement and presumably better than other available options; 2) Not having any major areas of development needing to be addressed at the minor league level; some "kinks" are fine, but it should only be stuff that can be developed with major league reps.

Adell is the most egregious example of the Angels failing on both accounts. But the others are less so, and some were actually OK with 1 (e.g. Canning, Barria, even Rengifo). Even though I thought he was rushed, C-Rod was also solid in his major league debut...his issues are more physical, I think.

[Don]

I'm obviously not the one making these decisions, but in my mind O'Hoppe would have to perform pretty poorly in ST to not get the starting catcher job. His minor league numbers really suggest a dude that knows what he's doing at the plate .283/.416/.544 last year with 70 BB and 74 Ks in 104 games. And in the brief time he was up with the Angels last year he looked pretty competent at the plate.

I know there's the whole defense first thing, which is fine, but I don't think Stassi is good enough defensively to justify keeping his bat in the lineup at this point. Now, it's possible that Stassi just had an off year last year and he becomes a .750-ish OPS guy again while staying healthy. That is the absolute best case scenario possible, and I don't expect either of those things to happen really. 

Now, if we gave the job to O'Hoppe, it's possible that he fails, sure. But I think he has a much better chance of being a quality offensive player than Stassi, and I wouldn't be surprised at all by an 800+ OPS. And I know I've harped on this all offseason, but the biggest thing the Angels can do to improve the team heading into 2023 (besides adding like a million more bullpen arms) is to simply not give tons of ABs to guys that suck at hitting. Stassi was terrible last year, in a season where he played more games than any other year in his career (102). If I had to bet on who has a better chance of being a black hole in our lineup next year between O'Hoppe and Stassi, it is without a doubt Stassi. And I'm tired of dudes with sub-600 OPSs getting consistent ABs in our lineup. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

once you go back a bit further, and it isn't as much the case.

for a pretty long window of time, there was no one to promote.  

[AngelStew43]

Quero and O'Hoppe will both add at least 10-20 pounds of muscle as they age.  They may not be as big as Lance Parrish, but I would be happy if they both ended up like Bob Boone, a great defensive catcher and game manager.  

And as for power, if they each can hit 10 homers a season in a time share, the Angels will be very pleased with them both. 

[Blarg]

Bob Boone couldn't hit worth crap. Let's go nutz and say Gary Carter. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

Bob Boone couldn't hit worth crap. Let's go nutz and say Gary Carter. 

Except for the post-season, where he hit .311 with a .740 OPS over 121 PAs in an era where offense wasn’t explosive.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Top 100 prospects
Keith Law            ESPN                       MLB
59. Neto SS      43. Quero C         53. O'Hoppe C
61 O'Hoppe C   62. O'Hoppe C     89. Neto SS
93. Quero C     84. Neto SS

There seems to be quite a difference of opinions especially on Quero...

Edited February 4, 2023 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Revad]

Of course on the most important list it’s:

1.  O’Hoppe

2.  Neto 

4.  Quero