From MLBTR: What will the Angels do with Adell?

[Warfarin]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t think Thaiss will make the team as a back up catcher. Unless there’s some sort of team control implication for having O’Hoppe start the season in the minors for a few weeks. My belief is the Angels will either acquire a veteran catcher or start the season with O’Hoppe. 

There is.  I don't know the exact days, but if he stays down for effectively a month, they gain an extra year of control.  Whether they play the "extra year of control" game remains to be seen.

I likewise think they'll acquire some kind of backup catcher.  But I don't think Thaiss and Walsh are really linked at all.  Walsh will make the team barring injury and will be the 1B.  If Thaiss makes the team, it is because the FO feels his defense is good enough to stick.  I don't see the decisions (Walsh and Thaiss) as linked.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

There is.  I don't know the exact days, but if he stays down for effectively a month, they gain an extra year of control.  Whether they play the "extra year of control" game remains to be seen.

I likewise think they'll acquire some kind of backup catcher.  But I don't think Thaiss and Walsh are really linked at all.  Walsh will make the team barring injury and will be the 1B.  If Thaiss makes the team, it is because the FO feels his defense is good enough to stick.  I don't see the decisions (Walsh and Thaiss) as linked.

And I see it as the team has depth at 1st but little depth at catcher. I also don’t think a team in win now mode can have a catcher, even a back up catcher, with 150 professional games caught in 2 years after taking 5 years off of catching. Also he was drafted for his bat, not his elite catching skills. 

[Warfarin]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And I see it as the team has depth at 1st but little depth at catcher. I also don’t think a team in win now mode can have a catcher, even a back up catcher, with 150 professional games caught in 2 years after taking 5 years off of catching. Also he was drafted for his bat, not his elite catching skills. 

Right.  But you said you could see one or the other making it but not both.  This implies if Thaiss makes the team, Walsh doesn’t.  I don’t see that as a possibility, barring injury to Walsh.  Unless you are trying to suggest that Thaiss would win the 1B job over Walsh?

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Right.  But you said you could see one or the other making it but not both.  This implies if Thaiss makes the team, Walsh doesn’t.  I don’t see that as a possibility, barring injury to Walsh.  Unless you are trying to suggest that Thaiss would win the 1B job over Walsh?

I’m saying if they continue to value flexibility and are unsure of Walsh he could be the odd man out. He also has options left. 

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m saying if they continue to value flexibility and are unsure of Walsh he could be the odd man out. He also has options left. 

I see the odds of Walsh being optioned as extremely slim.  He had a solid track record when healthy and will earn around 3mil this year.  It isn’t too common to see players earning salaries like that to be hanging out in the minors.

I mean I guess it’s possible that Walsh is optioned in favor of Thaiss, but I’d put the odds of that close to zero.  

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I mean I guess it’s possible that Walsh is optioned in favor of Thaiss, but I’d put the odds of that close to zero.  

^^^

[cals]

The Maddon Derangement Syndrome is hilarious.  

It will be fun to watch you guys try to continue to make him the scapegoat when they all suck again next year.

[Revad]

I’m rooting for Thaiss, but I don’t know that he fits on a competitive team right now or not.  I guess they take a look in spring at his defense, I doubt he’ll pass through waivers.

Thaiss has experience with roboumps and a good pop time, plus his ability to play multiple positions.  He should catch on somewhere.

[BTH]

35 minutes ago, cals said:

The Maddon Derangement Syndrome is hilarious.  

It will be fun to watch you guys try to continue to make him the scapegoat when they all suck again next year.

If they suck again next season, it’s not gonna be because of anything Maddon could’ve fixed.

[Angel Oracle]

11 hours ago, cgoldangel said:

I think there were a few Angels last year that really struggled with whatever the hitting instructors were teaching. Walsh, Stassi, Marsh, Adell and others seemed to have a really weird approach where they were taking fastballs over the plate (even on two strike counts) and swinging at off speed pitches that were not close to the plate. I am hopeful the new hitting coaches in Anaheim and at SLC can help Adell improve his approach.  Marsh looked better in just a short time with the Phillies although still looked lost part of the time.  Give Adell the time to make some adjustments with hopefully a better instructor(s) and see if he can become a better player for next year.   Not sure we can get much for him now.

If any other team ever hires Jeremy Reed as hitting coach, then good luck!

They’re gonna need it!

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I see the odds of Walsh being optioned as extremely slim.  He had a solid track record when healthy and will earn around 3mil this year.  It isn’t too common to see players earning salaries like that to be hanging out in the minors.

I mean I guess it’s possible that Walsh is optioned in favor of Thaiss, but I’d put the odds of that close to zero.  

If Walsh just plays against RHPs, I can see him returning to an over .800 OPS, to go with very good 1B defense.

Echo the thoughts on here about a full season of unified coaching maybe leading to a team breakout offensive season.  The talent is certainly there.   Key is good health, although the depth is now there to better handle the injuries.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[cals]

20 minutes ago, Trendon said:

If they suck again next season, it’s not gonna be because of anything Maddon could’ve fixed.

Fair enough.

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, cals said:

The Maddon Derangement Syndrome is hilarious.  

It will be fun to watch you guys try to continue to make him the scapegoat when they all suck again next year.

I don’t think the team only sucked because of him.  But it’s likely fair to assume that Maddon and the FO being at odds over various things probably was a net negative as opposed to a net positive.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

I’m rooting for Thaiss, but I don’t know that he fits on a competitive team right now or not.  I guess they take a look in spring at his defense, I doubt he’ll pass through waivers.

Thaiss has experience with roboumps and a good pop time, plus his ability to play multiple positions.  He should catch on somewhere.

Yeah.  I think his arm was always considered good for a catcher, and as you mentioned, the pop times look good.  I think the question was always the other aspects of catching.  From the MLBTR article last year, https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/09/angels-rumors-matt-thaiss-catcher-max-stassi.html :

Quote

when ranking Thaiss as the No. 28 prospect in the draft, that he had “more than enough arm for the position, but many scouts aren’t sold on his receiving and blocking skills despite the work he’s put into both.” 

Now, he has effectively caught a season's worth of games between the minors and majors in the last 2 years.  I'm sure he's putting in a lot of work this offseason.  Will that be enough for him to be viewed good enough defensively to become the backup catcher?  I'm sure we will find out in spring training.  Notably, Minasian did say he likes to have a second catcher who hits from the other side as the main catcher, so that would seem to at least open up the possibility that Thaiss can stick (although I'm sure that's not the main consideration).

[TempeAngel]

So you think it's possible Thaiss wins the 1B job in ST and Walsh is optioned?

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

So you think it's possible Thaiss wins the 1B job in ST and Walsh is optioned?

I think it’s possible Walsh starts the year in AAA and we see Urshela at 1st full time with Thais as an option at 1st and a 3rd catcher. 

[Erstad Grit]

Seems pretty simple.

Start him at AAA and hope he becomes a complete player.

Trade him for a player(s) who fit our teams better.

If we keep him in AAA and he doesn't show improvement then next year we have some decisions to make. 

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, cals said:

The Maddon Derangement Syndrome is hilarious.  

It will be fun to watch you guys try to continue to make him the scapegoat when they all suck again next year.

If they suck again next year it's all on Perry.  Or major injuries.   

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think it’s possible Walsh starts the year in AAA and we see Urshela at 1st full time with Thais as an option at 1st and a 3rd catcher. 

But why discount 2020-June 2022, when Walsh was rock solid vs RHP?

[Warfarin]

49 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

If they suck again next year it's all on Perry.  Or major injuries.   

Maybe, but it's probably also a fair question to ask - what is a reasonable timeline for a new GM to overhaul a team and improve it, if they aren't really given much extra budget than they inherited, with money largely tied up in places already on the roster, and not permitted to engage in a fire sale to help facilitate prospect acquisition?

I think Perry has a great pedigree.  That does not mean he will be good at his job, but hopefully he has learned quite a bit from his superiors.  Given that he inherited a team with several large contracts (he inherited Trout, Rendon, Pujols, and Upton - Pujols dropped off after 2021, then Upton just dropped off after this season), he couldn't really give out too much in terms of salary.  This is really the first offseason in which he has been able to spend more.  He has now had 2 draft classes, but given the timeline it takes to develop prospects, none of them have had any significant impact yet.  Is it reasonable to expect him to have a contender now, based on the above?  Or should we moreso be in the "look for signs of improvement, but temper expectations" bucket?

I think Perry can build a strong winner, but I think the condition of the team he inherited, as well as the restrictions that prevented him from selling off, has probably impacted how quickly he can create a winner.

That said, I expect to see a team that at least is in contention this year and playing meaningful games in September.  I don't know if this team is good enough to earn a wild card spot just yet, but I think it'll be close.

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

But why discount 2020-June 2022, when Walsh was rock solid vs RHP?

It's an interesting take.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but as I stated above, I think the odds of Walsh being optioned in favor of Thaiss are near zero.  I think if he looks awful in ST, he might be deemed "injured" and IL'd, which could open the pathway for Thaiss, but I just can't see him being optioned.  I can't think of too many instances in which guys who are earning 3mil+ (arbitration years) get optioned.

[Revad]

17 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

But why discount 2020-June 2022, when Walsh was rock solid vs RHP?

Walsh might really have good numbers next year platooning.  Should really help the overall 1b production as well.  Might not be the best for his development so if they fall out of contention maybe he starts full time.

[Pancake Bear]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

I don’t think Thaiss will make the team as a back up catcher. Unless there’s some sort of team control implication for having O’Hoppe start the season in the minors for a few weeks. My belief is the Angels will either acquire a veteran catcher or start the season with O’Hoppe. 

I think they'll see what they have with O'Hoppe in spring. If they really don't think he's ready, they'll either use Wallach or bring in someone else last minute. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

I kinda see it as they’ll choose Thaiss or Walsh to be on the roster but not both. 

Then Thaiss is toast. Walsh is the starting first basemen. If he's not then Minasian would've brought in a legit first basemen this off season. Thaiss is not in any realistic plans for first base this year.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

But why discount 2020-June 2022, when Walsh was rock solid vs RHP?

I’m not discounting it. I am just guessing that the team may feel more comfortable not releasing Thaiss to start the season.