Shortstop candidates for the Halos

[Pancake Bear]

26 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I feel like we're signing Iglesias or Segura

The same Iglesias we released last season? That Iglesias? 

[Erstad Grit]

21 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

The same Iglesias we released last season? That Iglesias? 

 2021 but yes.  I'm not saying I want him or Segura, but I envision us getting on of  them. 

 

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

 2021 but yes.  I'm not saying I want him or Segura, but I envision us getting on of  them. 

 

That would be a bigger surprise than signing Correa. 

[Second Base]

As much as I oppose it, I think Carlos Correa is an option. I have nothing to back this up though. Also, rumor has it Tim Anderson is also available. And common sense suggests Adalberto Mondesi or Nicky Lopez might be too. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

As much as I oppose it, I think Carlos Correa is an option. I have nothing to back this up though. Also, rumor has it Tim Anderson is also available. And common sense suggests Adalberto Mondesi or Nicky Lopez might be too. 

for some reason I keep getting this feeling of the Angels being in on Correa as well.  

[TempeAngel]

Signing Correa would be great but signing a fourth $30 M - $35 M guy doesn't feel like it's rooted in reality. 

They would end up with a tax payroll of $250 M or more.

[Angels 1961]

43 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

for some reason I keep getting this feeling of the Angels being in on Correa as well.  

I think it's Bogarts

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, TempeAngel said:

Signing Correa would be great but signing a fourth $30 M - $35 M guy doesn't feel like it's rooted in reality. 

They would end up with a tax payroll of $250 M or more.

For the next four years. 

[floplag]

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

Right so you sign a pitcher and trade a pitcher for a SS. 

It isnt that i dont think the idea is valid, but it needs context.
The SS your talking about trading for are not as big an upgrade as those available at this point and the pitchers may or may not be as big an upgrade over what we have to trade to get them.
The idea is sound, but put some names to it... i assume youre talking about a Bassitt Type not a Rodon for example. 
Unless the driving concern is budget, over performance, this isnt the best path to winning.

[floplag]

12 hours ago, stormngt said:

Then play Rengifo on SS.  My point is we could take a middle infielder for 2nd base. 

There is a large difference in skillset between SS and 2B.. just because a person is a middle infielder, doenst mean its interchangeable. have we not proven that?

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

It isnt that i dont think the idea is valid, but it needs context.
The SS your talking about trading for are not as big an upgrade as those available at this point and the pitchers may or may not be as big an upgrade over what we have to trade to get them.
The idea is sound, but put some names to it... i assume youre talking about a Bassitt Type not a Rodon for example. 
Unless the driving concern is budget, over performance, this isnt the best path to winning.

Ok provide context to what winning looks like signing a big money SS. And yes a Bassit or Senga. 

[floplag]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok provide context to what winning looks like signing a big money SS. And yes a Bassit or Senga. 

So, sign Bassit lets say, then trade for an Adames type.   Thats the plan?  Just so were clear?

Assuming yes, those guys are going to likely cost 20M+-ish, plus what you give up in prospects or young talent, something we dont have a ton of.

Yes, its a shorter term commitment and fits within the budget if thats the driving concern.  I can see this IF the extend Ohtani and dont want another massive contract. 

Again im not saying it isnt a valid plan, but is that roster enough to be more than a wildcard contender?
  

[Stradling]

27 minutes ago, floplag said:

So, sign Bassit lets say, then trade for an Adames type.   Thats the plan?  Just so were clear?

Assuming yes, those guys are going to likely cost 20M+-ish, plus what you give up in prospects or young talent, something we dont have a ton of.

Yes, its a shorter term commitment and fits within the budget if thats the driving concern.  I can see this IF the extend Ohtani and dont want another massive contract. 

Again im not saying it isnt a valid plan, but is that roster enough to be more than a wildcard contender?
  

Do you want to be a contender for one year?  Or for the long haul?  You have to live in the reality that every team has a budget, and while they can exceed the budget, they aren’t likely to put themselves in a position to go over the threshold every year.  Signing a $30 million free agent SS puts them above the threshold for this year, and if they sign Ohtani, they will be above the threshold for 4 years until Rendon comes off the books.  They’ll still need to fill left field after this coming year, they’ll have to replace Urshela after this year.  You can’t simply say budget like it is a bad thing, because it is the reality. Hell my budget is right at the threshold.  Even the Yankees and Dodgers try to get under the threshold every couple of years.  The Angels won’t be able to do that if $140 million go to 4 players, and $35 million go to 4 more players.  So you will have 8 players (Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, SS, Fletcher, Anderson, Stassi, Estevez) getting $175 million.  Now you have to fill the other 16 spots with about $60 million.   

[Blarg]

Arbitration is going to eat into that budget quickly as all those affordable home grown arms and position players get their paydays.  

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Do you want to be a contender for one year?  Or for the long haul?  You have to live in the reality that every team has a budget, and while they can exceed the budget, they aren’t likely to put themselves in a position to go over the threshold every year.  Signing a $30 million free agent SS puts them above the threshold for this year, and if they sign Ohtani, they will be above the threshold for 4 years until Rendon comes off the books.  They’ll still need to fill left field after this coming year, they’ll have to replace Urshela after this year.  You can’t simply say budget like it is a bad thing, because it is the reality. Hell my budget is right at the threshold.  Even the Yankees and Dodgers try to get under the threshold every couple of years.  The Angels won’t be able to do that if $140 million go to 4 players, and $35 million go to 4 more players.  So you will have 8 players (Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, SS, Fletcher, Anderson, Stassi, Estevez) getting $175 million.  Now you have to fill the other 16 spots with about $60 million.   

Dodgers seem to be sitting out this year to get under lux tax. Angels will not sign top SS they will need money for Ohtani. If Ohtani does not sign you have extra money next year.

[Stradling]

30 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Arbitration is going to eat into that budget quickly as all those affordable home grown arms and position players get their paydays.  

Yep.  How many seasons until Ward and Sandoval are making $10-12 million a year?  

[Warfarin]

45 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Do you want to be a contender for one year?  Or for the long haul?  You have to live in the reality that every team has a budget, and while they can exceed the budget, they aren’t likely to put themselves in a position to go over the threshold every year.  Signing a $30 million free agent SS puts them above the threshold for this year, and if they sign Ohtani, they will be above the threshold for 4 years until Rendon comes off the books.  They’ll still need to fill left field after this coming year, they’ll have to replace Urshela after this year.  You can’t simply say budget like it is a bad thing, because it is the reality. Hell my budget is right at the threshold.  Even the Yankees and Dodgers try to get under the threshold every couple of years.  The Angels won’t be able to do that if $140 million go to 4 players, and $35 million go to 4 more players.  So you will have 8 players (Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, SS, Fletcher, Anderson, Stassi, Estevez) getting $175 million.  Now you have to fill the other 16 spots with about $60 million.   

While I generally agree with you overall, the caveat to the above is that it is possible that there will be a large jump in luxury tax with the next set of negotiations.  Also, the entire structure of luxury tax and whatnot could change too.  But at the very least, yes - we would be above for 3 years, through the end of the current CBA.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

While I generally agree with you overall, the caveat to the above is that it is possible that there will be a large jump in luxury tax with the next set of negotiations.  Also, the entire structure of luxury tax and whatnot could change too.  But at the very least, yes - we would be above for 3 years, through the end of the current CBA.

Actually 4 years, if going over in 2023.

2023 threshold: $233m

2024 threshold: $237m

2025 threshold: $241m

2026 threshold: $244m

Rendon had better get it together, or else new gloss is Rendon’t!

Edited December 7, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Warfarin]

43 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Arbitration is going to eat into that budget quickly as all those affordable home grown arms and position players get their paydays.  

Yeah, and quite frankly - all the more imperative that this FO (and subsequent ownership group) really gets the "draft and develop" process working well.  If some of our young minor leagues, such as Bush, Bachman, O'Hoppe, Neto, Dichiara, etc, develop well, or well enough, that would mitigate the need to pay these giant contracts to players.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

Actually 4 years, if going over in 2023.

You're right, my bad.  For some reason I thought the CBA was a 4 year agreement, but I was wrong - it's 5 years.  So Stradling (and you) are correct - my mistake.

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Ok provide context to what winning looks like signing a big money SS. And yes a Bassit or Senga. 

Thats what i asked you to do... Tell me how your plan makes this team more than a wildcard contender. 
How does Bassit and Adames put us over the top?

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Do you want to be a contender for one year?  Or for the long haul?  You have to live in the reality that every team has a budget, and while they can exceed the budget, they aren’t likely to put themselves in a position to go over the threshold every year.  Signing a $30 million free agent SS puts them above the threshold for this year, and if they sign Ohtani, they will be above the threshold for 4 years until Rendon comes off the books.  They’ll still need to fill left field after this coming year, they’ll have to replace Urshela after this year.  You can’t simply say budget like it is a bad thing, because it is the reality. Hell my budget is right at the threshold.  Even the Yankees and Dodgers try to get under the threshold every couple of years.  The Angels won’t be able to do that if $140 million go to 4 players, and $35 million go to 4 more players.  So you will have 8 players (Trout, Ohtani, Rendon, SS, Fletcher, Anderson, Stassi, Estevez) getting $175 million.  Now you have to fill the other 16 spots with about $60 million.   

We have never agreed on what this club can or cannot do, and thats fine, but the idea that they cant exceed the tax, even for a few years, seems nonsensical to me. 
They just  tried to spend billions on a land deal, the idea that 10-20 million is a show stopper makes little sense. 
If the existing budget is the only factor, then were already out of our depth. 

[TempeAngel]

13 minutes ago, floplag said:

Thats what i asked you to do... Tell me how your plan makes this team more than a wildcard contender. 
How does Bassit and Adames put us over the top?

His idea is to trade Sandoval. So the scenario is also without Sandoval.

Smart teams don't trade young, cost controlled pitchers with front of the rotation potential.

Perry seems smart. Sandoval is not going anywhere. He is building around Sandoval, not trading him.

[floplag]

18 minutes ago, TempeAngel said:

His idea is to trade Sandoval. So the scenario is also without Sandoval.

Smart teams don't trade young, cost controlled pitchers with front of the rotation potential.

Perry seems smart. Sandoval is not going anywhere. He is building around Sandoval, not trading him.

This is what im wondering... who do we trade to make these deals and are we better off with the changes... does adding Bassitt and subtracting Sandoval make us better?   I dont think it does. 
The theory is sound, but the details will determine if it makes sense or not.  It needs context
I like our young pitching, im not wild about dealing any of it unless its for an absolute no brainer, and im not sure an Adames type is that. 

[angelsnationtalk]

15 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

IT appears that Perry is going hard for a Big 3 SS now.   He seems to have the green light to compete seriously.   Things are looking up for a big name SS.

Who said they are? No one has indicated that.