Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Second Base]

I'm still holding out hope that the Angels and Padres can work a trade out for Kim. My two favorite teams, and admittedly, Kim was underutilized by San Diego before. He provided them with depth, which they ended up needing in the wake of Tatis' idiocy. 

He still doesn't have an everyday role there, which is a shame, but could play about 50-75% of the time, which is still too little given his age, upside and salary. 

Not sure what a trade would look like there, but it would be awesome to see what he could do with a full season of at bats. Maybe 20 HR and a gold glove. 

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Per Fangraphs, they are 100k under.  That is likely not enough, as the Dodgers tend to liberally use the IL for injured players (they already have 3 guys on the 40-man roster who will be out all year), which means they have to pay replacements for those guys.

They likely need another 5mil or so of wiggle room at least.  Also, they will probably want space for a mid-season acquisition, potentially.

When a team signs Bauer they will add another 720k under the tax limit 

[BTH]

37 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I'm still holding out hope that the Angels and Padres can work a trade out for Kim. My two favorite teams, and admittedly, Kim was underutilized by San Diego before. He provided them with depth, which they ended up needing in the wake of Tatis' idiocy. 

If the Angels had more pitching depth, then maybe Suarez would make sense for them. Or if Walsh was fully healthy. Or if they really liked Adell.

But that’s a lot of if’s, making a deal unlikely.

[Chuck]

54 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I'm still holding out hope that the Angels and Padres can work a trade out for Kim. My two favorite teams, and admittedly, Kim was underutilized by San Diego before. He provided them with depth, which they ended up needing in the wake of Tatis' idiocy. 

He still doesn't have an everyday role there, which is a shame, but could play about 50-75% of the time, which is still too little given his age, upside and salary. 

Not sure what a trade would look like there, but it would be awesome to see what he could do with a full season of at bats. Maybe 20 HR and a gold glove. 

Sell me on Kim because I don’t see why some here are high on him. 

[Docwaukee]

There's a statistical drop off in Correa's defensive metrics at SS last year.  Particularly (and fairly strikingly) going to his left.  You push off from your right to go left.  His right ankle is the one with the plate.  His overall defense in 2022 by the statcast metrics was a bit below average.  

The question is whether this would also affect his first step quickness if he were to transition to 3b?  And could you eventually put him at 1b or the OF?  

Theoretically he could end up at 3b for the Angels after 4 yrs at SS.  Will the ankle hold up for 4 years and will he then be able to play 3b?  Is it worth having him on essentially a lifetime contract if say Neto progresses and takes over SS in 2024?  Could he play a corner OF spot and would it be worth it?  

Also, does the injury affect his pivot foot at the plate?  Right now the bat is still elite.  

And his sprint speed last year was about the same as the previous year although has been creeping down a touch since he first broke into the league.  But that's something one would expect.  

If you do the lifetime contract thing at 12/300, his aav is 25m you have him through age 39.  

Pretty much every player has some form of chronic wear and tear in various spots or sequelae of previous injury that gets passed and it's more than you'd think.  The fact that this one got flagged by two different team is concerning.  So take that for what it's worth.  

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sell me on Kim because I don’t see why some here are high on him. 

excellent defender at SS.  27 with two years of control.  The mutual option is a fart in a stiff wind because he's gonna decline that.  The bat is solid yet not gonna knock your socks off.  You'd think he might have a little more upside at the plate because he's still fairly new to mlb but his exit velo is in the bottom 10% of the league so I wouldn't expect more than we've seen.  Well above average sprint speed.  Very good plate discipline which is one area that could improve.  

Would I move Suarez for him?  Yes.  Would I include Neto in the deal?  Heck no.  Per the reports, SD wants controllable pitching and I would argue that Suarez should be enough but I bet you'd need to include Bush as well.  I'm not sure that makes sense for the Angels right now.  

[wopphil]

8 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

excellent defender at SS.  27 with two years of control.  The mutual option is a fart in a stiff wind because he's gonna decline that.  The bat is solid yet not gonna knock your socks off.  You'd think he might have a little more upside at the plate because he's still fairly new to mlb but his exit velo is in the bottom 10% of the league so I wouldn't expect more than we've seen.  Well above average sprint speed.  Very good plate discipline which is one area that could improve.  

Would I move Suarez for him?  Yes.  Would I include Neto in the deal?  Heck no.  Per the reports, SD wants controllable pitching and I would argue that Suarez should be enough but I bet you'd need to include Bush as well.  I'm not sure that makes sense for the Angels right now.  

Yep, he was a 5-WAR player last year and he is cheap the next two. He will cost a lot to acquire. 

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

To be honest, I would not be shocked to see Amaya become a very good player.  He's good defensively at SS, and he improved offensively significantly last year.  They excel at player develop, and I think it's possible he will be better than anticipated.  I would also not be surprised to see them trade for a young SS using one of their many young SP prospects, either.  They have tons of options.

But again, it all depends on their intentions.  Are they hyperfocused on getting below the LT limit?  If so, trading Taylor is probably the best option, or trading Hudson.  They likely need Muncy, so I think he'll stay.  But if they indeed are looking to shift some salary, there is opportunity to be had there, as they will assuredly find someone who will trade for one of their useful, cost-controlled players.

just couldn't throw in that extra "ment", huh? got a busy schedule today?

[angelsnationtalk]

54 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sell me on Kim because I don’t see why some here are high on him. 

It'd be a fair trade IF we had the extra prospect capital to do it. 

To me, the farm is just starting to grow. Angels need to spend the money, not sell the system. 

[TempeAngel]

19 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

excellent defender at SS.  27 with two years of control.  The mutual option is a fart in a stiff wind because he's gonna decline that.  The bat is solid yet not gonna knock your socks off.  You'd think he might have a little more upside at the plate because he's still fairly new to mlb but his exit velo is in the bottom 10% of the league so I wouldn't expect more than we've seen.  Well above average sprint speed.  Very good plate discipline which is one area that could improve.  

Would I move Suarez for him?  Yes.  Would I include Neto in the deal?  Heck no.  Per the reports, SD wants controllable pitching and I would argue that Suarez should be enough but I bet you'd need to include Bush as well.  I'm not sure that makes sense for the Angels right now.  

Actually I think he has 4 years of control not 2, right? The two years changes things. I don't think the Padres would trade him.

I think Kim stays and will play 150 games at 2B for the Padres this year - Cronenworth, Kim, Machado and Bogaerts at 3,4,5,6 is a great infield.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Docwaukee said:

There's a statistical drop off in Correa's defensive metrics at SS last year.  Particularly (and fairly strikingly) going to his left.  You push off from your right to go left.  His right ankle is the one with the plate.  His overall defense in 2022 by the statcast metrics was a bit below average.

This is an interesting point.

The question is if the ankle is actually the reason why his defense was so bad going to his left. It hasn’t been a strength of his throughout his career, but it was very bad in 2022.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

This is an interesting point.

The question is if the ankle is actually the reason why his defense was so bad going to his left. It hasn’t been a strength of his throughout his career, but it was very bad in 2022.

@Docwaukee Given his build and general skill set, he probably should the way A-Rod, Chipper and Machado and move to 3B anyway. 

[Second Base]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sell me on Kim because I don’t see why some here are high on him. 

Not much I can say that others haven't. He's a 27 year old, 5 win shortstop making 7.5 million per year, entering his physical prime. Succeeding at the MLB level without ever setting foot in the minor leagues. Strong kid, great clubhouse personality. 

Other 5-6 win shortstops in free agency are making 30 million a year, and they're older than him. He's inexpensive for the next two seasons. 

He's legit. 

[TempeAngel]

30 minutes ago, Second Base said:

@Docwaukee Given his build and general skill set, he probably should the way A-Rod, Chipper and Machado and move to 3B anyway. 

He's at 3B now if he ends up sticking with the Mets. They have Lindor at SS for the next 9 years.

[IheartLA]

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Sell me on Kim because I don’t see why some here are high on him. 

Elite defense, petco park murders him. Look at the splits for his away stats plus his defense and there’s potential there. I think the same of cronenworth when I look at his home/away splits. So many hitters have gone there and done poorly.

Sign Bauer and I’d do Suarez+Walsh for Kim.

[Chuck]

I wonder if Suarez, Fletcher and Bachman would net Kim? 

[halonatic13]

31 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I wonder if Suarez, Fletcher and Bachman would net Kim? 

That's too much.  Bachman should be off that list.

[BTH]

31 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I wonder if Suarez, Fletcher and Bachman would net Kim? 

I like Kim a lot, but I wouldn’t do that.

Kim and Fletcher are comparable defensively and the difference in offense isn’t big enough to make me trade Suarez and Bachman to bridge the gap.

[BTH]

Just now, halonatic13 said:

That's too much.  Bachman should be off that list.

I agree it’s too much, but I’d be more concerned about trading Suarez.

If you trade him, you now have two rotation spots to fill.

[Second Base]

45 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I wonder if Suarez, Fletcher and Bachman would net Kim? 

As I Padres fan, that's close, but still a "no." They're in win-now mode, and Kim still figures to log the majority of the starts at 2B. Reallocating value is one thing, but Suarez is only marginally better than the AAA options for now, and may not be better at all depending on how Morejon and Weathers performs. So he's only a slight upgrade. And Fletch evens out the money but still figures to lag behind Kim in terms of value, and Bachman doesn't offset that enough. 

But it's not a terrible proposal because it's right there in the ballpark. I think something along the lines of Suarez, Rengifo and Adell would do it for the Padres but is an overpay for the Angels. Maybe something between the two, like Suarez, Rengifo, Jackson and Bachman. The Angels get their shortstop, the Padres get a 2B that figures to be 2-3 wins less, but that is offset by getting an additional rotation arm that improves by one win. But they're still 1-2 wins worse, but they save 6.5 million and get a reliever and utility prospect to compensate that. 

At the end of the day, I'm just not sure it works for either side. 

[TempeAngel]

The Padres are not trading Kim. Maybe if we give them Sandoval and that would be stupid. Minasian is not stupid.

What's the next idea...

[Erstad Grit]

Can you imagine if Angels signed Bauer and Correa? Angel hype would go crazy. 

[mmc]

 

[angelsnationtalk]

7 hours ago, Trendon said:

This is an interesting point.

The question is if the ankle is actually the reason why his defense was so bad going to his left. It hasn’t been a strength of his throughout his career, but it was very bad in 2022.

I get the injury scare with Correa, but if you get him for 10+ years then what's the scare with making the contract official? Doesn't every team factor in that each player likely will miss time due to injury? Maybe it's just to sign a contract, but if he needs season ending surgery then that's a pretty common thing (from our eyes). 

Players are bound to be injured at some point during a 10yr contract. Let alone slide in terms of production. That's a risk every team understands.

Edited January 8, 2023 by angelsnationtalk

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

 

Meh.  Not impressed.