Go all in - gut the farm and pay Ohtani.

[Blarg]

Ippei

[ten ocho recon scout]

@ScruffytheJanitor made a good Ace Ventura in another thread, and it got me thinking.

I don't know if Ohtani does autograph signings at baseball card shops like other guys do. But if we did, maybe we could try having Perry put on fake pimples and look like a teenager, and ask Ohtani to sign what is actually a new contract, made to look like an issue of Halo magazine. Then present it as legally binding layer on.

Just an idea.

[BILLYMACREXANDGUBI]

LOL! I so agree with this but I was saying the same thing a few weeks ago before the trade deadline and all the stalwarts here were giving me a hard time. Ohtani and Trout are not pieces you can trade. Unless the other franchise is giving you everything and nobody does that. Yet, when I was telling all the crazies on here who wanted to trade Ohtani b/c somehow that means the Angels will magically start winning again with the package they got in return they made fun of me and railroaded me. I am not looking for any support. I am pointing out the hypocrisy that comes along with hindsight 20-20 vision.

It’s like saying oh let’s trade Tim Salmon, Garrett anderson, darin erstad, troy percival, and jarrod washburn because the angels arent winning divisions. You wouldnt have 2002 if stoneman had traded them all.

I think this team with Ohtani and Trout is destined for greatness.

 

 

[Warfarin]

On 8/8/2022 at 10:43 AM, Second Base said:

I'm in the opposite camp. Even if the Angels do as you say, they're still a wild card team at best and Ohtani signs elsewhere because he won't want to sign with a team that doesn't have a future. 

The Angels window to win, if the prospects develop correctly, including Adell, is probably in 2025. That just doesn't align with Ohtani's timeline with the team. 

The time has come to sell Ohtani for a package of four or five high-end double A prospects. You combine that package with the likes of Neto, O'Hoppe, DiChiara, Bachman, Bush, Rodriguez, and this team gets exciting again in 2024 and competitive again in 2025, and a force to be reckoned with in 2026. 

I'm a prospect guy myself and I am against trading away the farm, but I would probably shy away from trading Ohtani.  He's a star and a unique player, and I think that holds a lot of value in terms of marketing, fans, etc.

I would offer Ohtani a mega deal, and recognize that by doing so, this team will preclude the notion of any other significant signings moving forward, since 3 guys on the payroll would probably combine for 105-110mil of it.

That is where the scouting and analytics team that Minasian has built HAS to come up big.  We need the aforementioned guys you mentioned to step up and develop into legit players.

If Bush becomes a solid SP, Neto a reliable SS, O'Hoppe a solid every day catcher, etc .. then we will have really good, cheap young players to complement the several stars we have.

It is easy (and understandable) for fans to be down on the FO and team in terms of developing talent, given its track history, but Minasian and his team are effectively new to the team, and it takes multiple years to develop young talent.  We have to give him and his team time to see how effectively they can develop talent.  

One other thing to note though - a big part of our success will be dictated by the health of Trout and Rendon.  Neither guy can stay on the field, and if 2 of our 3 stars are always injured, then it really does make it extremely difficult to field a competitive team.  I don't know how we will exactly "fix" that, but that definitely needs to improve.

[ThisismineScios]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

One other thing to note though - a big part of our success will be dictated by the health of Trout and Rendon.  Neither guy can stay on the field, and if 2 of our 3 stars are always injured, then it really does make it extremely difficult to field a competitive team.  I don't know how we will exactly "fix" that, but that definitely needs to improve.

The losing streak started as soon as Rendon got injured. His health is probably the most important factor in our success next year. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I'm a prospect guy myself and I am against trading away the farm, but I would probably shy away from trading Ohtani.  He's a star and a unique player, and I think that holds a lot of value in terms of marketing, fans, etc.

I would offer Ohtani a mega deal, and recognize that by doing so, this team will preclude the notion of any other significant signings moving forward, since 3 guys on the payroll would probably combine for 105-110mil of it.

That is where the scouting and analytics team that Minasian has built HAS to come up big.  We need the aforementioned guys you mentioned to step up and develop into legit players.

If Bush becomes a solid SP, Neto a reliable SS, O'Hoppe a solid every day catcher, etc .. then we will have really good, cheap young players to complement the several stars we have.

It is easy (and understandable) for fans to be down on the FO and team in terms of developing talent, given its track history, but Minasian and his team are effectively new to the team, and it takes multiple years to develop young talent.  We have to give him and his team time to see how effectively they can develop talent.  

One other thing to note though - a big part of our success will be dictated by the health of Trout and Rendon.  Neither guy can stay on the field, and if 2 of our 3 stars are always injured, then it really does make it extremely difficult to field a competitive team.  I don't know how we will exactly "fix" that, but that definitely needs to improve.

[Adam]

I'm on board for the exact opposite approach

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

I'm on board for the exact opposite approach

Pay the farm and gut Ohtani? 

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Lou said:

Pay the farm and gut Ohtani? 

Ohtani would gut himself if he had to sit listening to O'Neal on a long flight.

[Warfarin]

12 hours ago, Second Base said:

Well, perhaps I should say - I am a "build the team through the farm" kind of fan, as opposed to a "sign all the expensive free agents" kind of fan.

[Blarg]

Strangely enough, if you look at the Angels roster the free agents are Rendon and Stassi in the infield. With Trout in the lineup everyone in the outfield is from the farm. This is a farm team for the most part.

[Warfarin]

11 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Strangely enough, if you look at the Angels roster the free agents are Rendon and Stassi in the infield. With Trout in the lineup everyone in the outfield is from the farm. This is a farm team for the most part.

Yeah, you're correct.  Ward looked very promising prior to his injury, and perhaps the same can be said about Fletcher.

Still - they likely need to churn out more legit players.  It appears Minasian has been allowed to significantly ramp up the scouting/analytics team.  Hopefully the upcoming wave of talent that we see in AA can finally the talent infusion wave we have been hoping for.

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Still - they likely need to churn out more legit players.  

No doubt. It looks like there may be some pitching help coming up next season. That kid O'Hoppe looks promising, possibly a Suzuki replacement and Neto may just get a cup of coffee next year. I just would like to see a little more impact from these players rather than just good enough to hold their own. 

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

No doubt. It looks like there may be some pitching help coming up next season. That kid O'Hoppe looks promising, possibly a Suzuki replacement and Neto may just get a cup of coffee next year. I just would like to see a little more impact from these players rather than just good enough to hold their own. 

I think Neto should be on track to be a solid SS.  I agree that his impact in 2023 should be fairly minimal, but hopefully he'll get some games under his belt, with an eye on him becoming a regular by 2024.  If he can serve in that role, Fletcher becomes the full-time 2B again, which is a better role for him than being our SS.  Rengifo would then become a utility player, which I think would be a good role for him.

O'Hoppe projects to be a solid starting C, which would enable us to bump to Stassi as more of a backup (perhaps a 60/40 split in playing time).

We still need help in the OF, and perhaps at 1B if Walsh can't rediscover his previous form, but those should be easier to fill gaps, whether via the prospect pipeline or free agency.  I cited Pederson earlier - doesn't have to be him, but the point is he is a cheap signing, and usually a good-hitting LF/RF is not terribly expensive to fill (such as SS, CF, etc).

[Angel Oracle]

How about this as an offer for Ohtani?

8 years/$280 million (through age 36)

Same per year salary base as Trout

$5 million extra for at least 162 innings

$5 million extra for at least 180 innings 

$5 million extra for at least 200 innings

Opt outs after years 2, 4, and 6