What's with the f'n bullpen?

[Docwaukee]

We can't have nice things.  

This was supposed to be a strength and they have performed very very poorly so far.    And they're actually getting a bit lucky with an FIP about half a run above their pretty poor ERA and a BABIP of .215.  

The overall number of innings they've been asked to pitch isn't overly high relative to other teams.  

A couple of observations - they're not missing bats.  And they've been getting killed on sliders.  

Is it improper matchups?  Poor sequencing?  Or just plain old poor execution?  

[fan_since79]

They're either bad, or this is just a small-sample-size blip. Time will tell.

Raisel was brilliant as usual last night. He's the real thing, the first truly dominant closer we've had in ages. So at least there's that.

 

[tdawg87]

Whenever we get something good "on paper" it ends up being one of the biggest problems. 

Man, this organization needs an enema. Or an exorcism. It's so damn frustrating. 

I was venting last night that this is the same team as last year and while I think they'll compete, that game was a microcosm of every Angels team since 2015:

Awful defense that cost runs, a complete bullpen meltdown, awful situational hitting, and a pathetic showing by the heart of the order to close out the game. Not to mention questionable managerial decisions regarding the pitchers.

It just sucks.

[fan_since79]

Yeah, the situational hitting. Stassi's first at-bat set the tone. Weak ground ball out on the first pitch. Several other Angels also failed to work counts. Just bad fundamentals at the plate. Where are the coaches?!

You look at the Astros, for example. Their hitters go deep into the counts. Disciplined and patient. Correlates with success. If our lineup is waiting around for Trout to hit some dingers, we're in trouble. 

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

I mean the Defense hasn't helped much..... Our BP gave up 0 ER last night. 

The Only Guys that mean Bad has been Myers..and that was in his first 2 appearances and Bradley, who has been kinda awful.

Loup has an ERA at 0, Tepera has an ERa of 2.35, Iggly has been Nasty, Ortega has been solid, even Warren hasn't done bad. Heck even herget has only had one bad appearance. 

Last night was just one fo those games we just played bad, Bad defense, Bad hitting and just were unlucky. Heck you can say that about this entire series, the defense has been shit, and than the the offense.....also has ben shit. 

[Taylor]

It's missing a 'p' -- that special power that intimidates batters and holds leads with determination.

 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

It's missing a 'p' -- that special power that intimidates batters and holds leads with determination.

 

whoops.  

[rottiesworld]

Loup pitched like crap and you knew he didn’t have it but yet damn manager with his head up his ass leaves him in there. I blame the manager again how many game have we lost because of him. If a pitcher doesn’t have it take him out of the game.

[PattyD22]

1 minute ago, rottiesworld said:

Loup pitched like crap and you knew he didn’t have it but yet damn manager with his head up his ass leaves him in there. I blame the manager again how many game have we lost because of him. If a pitcher doesn’t have it take him out of the game.

Same for Tepera.  His strike to ball ratio was awful.  At one point it was 15 balls to 5 strikes, if I’m not mistaken.  He threw 8 consecutive balls at one point.

As Tdawg said above, it’s just so damn frustrating with this team.  It’s like plugging holes in the dam.  When you plug one leak (hitting) another springs up (defense, pitching, situational hitting, fundamentals….etc.)

 

[tdawg87]

I would have left Loup in tbh. 

[Jason]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

 

Man, this organization needs an enema. Or an exorcism. It's so damn frustrating. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

Given that no reliever has pitched more than 9 IP (and Ortega, at that), I'm not going to freak out. Yet. 

That said, I think some concern is warranted. As things stand right now, Angels relievers are 29th in WAR (-0.6) and 24th in ERA (4.26). Furthermore, their 1.56 HR/9 IP rate is second worst in the majors.

I imagine that Arte must be fuming, especially after laying down, what, $90M on the bullpen? And the bullpen is costing the Angels about $35M this year...not sure how that compares to other teams, but it must be on the high end. The Athletics bullpen is costing about $6M and it has been more middle of the pack.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

We can't have nice things.  

This was supposed to be a strength and they have performed very very poorly so far.    And they're actually getting a bit lucky with an FIP about half a run above their pretty poor ERA and a BABIP of .215.  

The overall number of innings they've been asked to pitch isn't overly high relative to other teams.  

A couple of observations - they're not missing bats.  And they've been getting killed on sliders.  

Is it improper matchups?  Poor sequencing?  Or just plain old poor execution?  

There are a lot of interesting pieces in the bullpen, but outside of Iglesias there isn't an obvious 'relief ace.' So the way I always look at those second tier guys is, they have about a 50% attrition rate. Between the small sample, health, and matchups they can go either way. Given time I think a couple of these guys are going to emerge as regularly reliable, but it's going to take some time to get there. In the meantime, we can't afford to be keeping guys like Tepera in the game when they can't find the strike zone, or guy like Bradley in when they can't miss bats. A big part of an effective bullpen is expecting one of your guys not to have it on any given night and moving on as quickly as possible.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

There are a lot of interesting pieces in the bullpen, but outside of Iglesias there isn't an obvious 'relief ace.' So the way I always look at those second tier guys is, they have about a 50% attrition rate. Between the small sample, health, and matchups they can go either way. Given time I think a couple of these guys are going to emerge as regularly reliable, but it's going to take some time to get there. In the meantime, we can't afford to be keeping guys like Tepera in the game when they can't find the strike zone, or guy like Bradley in when they can't miss bats. A big part of an effective bullpen is expecting one of your guys not to have it on any given night and moving on as quickly as possible.

I think the source of frustration is that the Angels dropped serious cash to not have to deal with an erratic bullpen once again, and to not have to go through a period of hoping someone would "emerge as regularly reliable." Otherwise, why not just have a scrapbox bullpen like in previous years, and have used that money to sign a good shortstop or Kevin Gausman?

Again, it is too early to be totally catastrophic, but if I'm Arte I'm thinking, "Why did I bother opening up the check book for this crap, when minor league filler would have been just as bad - maybe better?"

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think the source of frustration is that the Angels dropped serious cash to not have to deal with an erratic bullpen once again, and to not have to go through a period of hoping someone would "emerge as regularly reliable." Otherwise, why not just have a scrapbox bullpen like in previous years, and have used that money to sign a good shortstop or Kevin Gausman?

Again, it is too early to be totally catastrophic, but if I'm Arte I'm thinking, "Why did I bother opening up the check book for this crap, when minor league filler would have been just as bad - maybe better?"

Well they absolutely would've been better off putting that money elsewhere but they either missed the boat on those guys or didn't think they were worth it. As your post about the A's notes it isn't about the money you spend, signing these FA relievers was never going to solve the problem out of hand and if that is what they were expecting then there is a problem there.

What the money did do was give us a few more 'potentially reliable' arms than we already had. Trotting out the same group from last year was likely a failure because most of those guy were not even good enough to be 'potentially reliable.' This speaks to the problem with the Eppler approach to building a bullpen. Just because throwing money at relievers is inefficient and potentially wasteful, going into a season with a group of guys who completely suck and hoping that won't continue is far worse.

[failos]

Tepera cannot throw strikes. Pretty baffling.

[bloodbrother]

Ooph

[arch stanton]

So you use the first month to shake out what's working and what's not then dig through the system and find the arms that might help then make trades and waiver pick ups as applicable 

[Angel Oracle]

With all of the bullpen arms, it’s frustrating that a lot of them have struggled up here and on the farm so far, despite MLB pitching having the edge so far.

Who can truly be trusted outside of Iglesias and Loup?

Tepera has struggled mightily twice already.

Bradley outside of yesterday’s GIDP has struggled.

Warren has struggled (2.05 WHIP).

Mayers has struggled.

Maybe Herget and Ortega can be trusted.

That’s still only 4 relievers doing anything so far.   Can’t expect to win with that.

[AngelsFaninGA]

Have they really been that bad? Yes the last two games haven't been pretty but before that the damage has been limited to a couple of meltdowns in games that we already trailed in by a lot

[AngelsFaninGA]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

With all of the bullpen arms, it’s frustrating that a lot of them have struggled up here and on the farm so far, despite MLB pitching having the edge so far.

Who can truly be trusted outside of Iglesias and Loup?

Tepera has struggled mightily twice already.

Bradley outside of yesterday’s GIDP has struggled.

Warren has struggled (2.05 WHIP).

Mayers has struggled.

Maybe Herget and Ortega can be trusted.

That’s still only 4 relievers doing anything so far.   Can’t expect to win with that.

4 relievers i still 3 more than prior years

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Have they really been that bad? Yes the last two games haven't been pretty but before that the damage has been limited to a couple of meltdowns in games that we already trailed in by a lot

yes.  I posted this prior to yesterday's game.  And even before that, they've been awful.  2nd worst in baseball.  

[Angel Oracle]

Can’t blame it on overwork.

Every team’s starters are only averaging some 4-5 innings per start.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

It's Philosophy - Sequencing - High Pitch Counts = Falling Behind in the Count... When you continue to go up and the umpire isn't calling it and you continue to fall behind hitters and you aren't making the adjustments and then you do and it gets hit.... That is what you are seeing now! 

 A relievers job is to come in, get a head in the count, and get outs! 

There isn't many of these guys that can just throw it by people or fool them. (not counting Iglesias & Loup)...

92-93-94+mph consistently out of the strike zone doesn't work! 

[Angel Oracle]

Took a look at Tepera’s numbers in his other 6 appearances aside from the two meltdowns.

Only 1 baserunner across those 6 appearances 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Angel Oracle