2021-22 CBA Negotiation/Lockout Thread (DEAL IS AGREED TO)

[Chuck]

I just want to say that @Lou is spot on here on all fronts from what I've read in the past couple pages in this thread today. 

[ScottT]

Just now, mmc said:

So this proposal wasn’t submitted by the deadline, so games were cancelled, but an hour after games are cancelled they decide to keep discussing it after all?

And I doubt they are canceled.  Removed from the schedule was the phrase used.  

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Chuckster70 said:

I just want to say that @Lou is spot on here on all fronts from what I've read in the past couple pages in this thread today. 

Even the one where he said the players were being ridiculous with their last offer, even though it now appears it was actually Manfred's idea and both sides are apparently going to keep discussing it? Lol ok

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, ScottT said:

 

[mmc]

 

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Even the one where he said the players were being ridiculous with their last offer, even though it now appears it was actually Manfred's idea and both sides are apparently going to keep discussing it? Lol ok

I have a lot going on so I'm way out of the loop, but in just knowing what I know, he's been spot on. 

There's so many moving parts. It's hard to keep up.

[jsnpritchett]

"Rest of the deal"? Uh-oh...

[ScottT]

The rest of the deal seems close.   Biggest thing is the pre arb bonus pool.

CBT and minimum salary differences are next to nothing.

[ScottT]

Until someone throws something else in the mix.

[Stradling]

Just now, ScottT said:

Until someone throws something else in the mix.

Which will be the owners, again. 

[mmc]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

You can keep living in the fantasy that a resolution could happen without actual time pressure with something at stake.  There is just zero real world evidence of it.

But go ahead and keep telling yourself that.

LOL, so why were they able to negotiate 6 CBAs before this without locking out?

[mmc]

 

[Lou]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Which will be the owners, again. 

And the players.

[Taylor]

36 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I just want to say that @Lou is spot on here on all fronts from what I've read in the past couple pages in this thread today. 

Did Lou hack Chuck's account?

[mmc]

 

[Angels 1961]

I will not buy nor will I accept any MLB tickets this year.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

If you don’t think this negotiation has been a total shit show then I don’t know what to tell you.  They’ve had to cancel games not once but twice. The moment a game was cancelled it was proof that this was a fuck up. Not to mention what it’s doing to the casual fan and some of the die hard fans. What would it take for you to admit it was managed poorly?  What percent of lost games or lost attendance.  You keep acting like I’m some spoiled fan, it’s a very tired act on your part.  You’re the one guy in the room who thinks, “well this is how it goes”.  

It is a shit show for what you want.  Both sides have 1000 times more experience in these things.

I am glad you worded some of your sentences exactly as you did.  What it is doing to the casual fan?  For 95% of casual fans, uh, nothing.  And in two months 100% of casual fans won’t care.

Die hard fans?  What is their cost in this so far other than a little temper tantrum that it isn’t resolved faster?  The die hard fan will be fine when it is resolved.  If they are not fine, then they probably should see a Shrink to get their priorities straight.

I have never said you are a “spoiled” fan as far as I can remember.  You are a fan with almost nothing meaningful at stake here so it is pretty easy to just be upset that it isn’t resolved.

This is the owners’ actual businesses and the player’s actual livelihood.   It isn’t unreasonable to rationally grasp that they will need more time to resolve this than the fan (that has nothing even close to as meaningful at stake) fantasizes they should need.

is it a shit show?  You can say that.  But there are real meaningful issues at stake and both sides are pretty ducking serious about not rolling over.  That’s gonna produce a “shit show” to some degree.

Why any of the this is that shocking to fans is what I am really surprised by.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I will not buy nor will I accept any MLB tickets this year.

Oh no!  Overall MLB top line revenue just went down $15.

[Make Angels Great Again]

What's to stop the players from saying "just kidding! We were never going to seriously consider an intl draft and now you have no recourse until the next CBA to negotiate it."

 

You guys that seemingly think the players offer is without fault are clearly biased.

[Make Angels Great Again]

In essence the only difference between the PA proposal and the MLB proposal is instead of no intl draft and QOs sticking around, it's no intl draft and QO sticks around except for this year.

 

This feels like a case of neither side wanting to accept the other's offer due to some sort of bullshit pride or something.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It is a shit show for what you want.  Both sides have 1000 times more experience in these things.

I am glad you worded some of your sentences exactly as you did.  What it is doing to the casual fan?  For 95% of casual fans, uh, nothing.  And in two months 100% of casual fans won’t care.

Die hard fans?  What is their coat in this so far other than a little temper tantrum that it isn’t resolved faster?  The die hard fan will be fine when it is resolved.  If they are not fine, then they probably should see a Shri k to get their priorities straight.

I have never said you are a “spoiled” fan as far as I can remember.  You are a fan with almost nothing at stake here so it is pretty easy to just be upset that it isn’t resolved.

This is the owners’ actual businesses and the player’s actual livelihood.   It isn’t unreasonable to rationally grasp that they will need more time to resolve this than the fan (that has nothing even close to as meaningful at stake) fantasizes they should need.

is it a shit show?  You can say that.  But there are real meaningful issues at stake and both sides are pretty ducking serious about not rolling over.  That’s gonna produce a “shit show” to some degree.

Why any of the this is that shocking to fans is what I am really surprised by.

If they started exchanging proposals a couple months earlier, do you think they'd be in the same spot they are now?  I don't.  I think both sides would have learned a lot earlier where the hot buttons were and what stuff was going to be an issue.  That said, I don't think the owners had any intention on not letting it get to this point unless the mlbpa caved on a ton of stuff.  They purposefully made the timeline shorter to increase pressure.  I do agree with that.  

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

It is a shit show for what you want.  Both sides have 1000 times more experience in these things.

I am glad you worded some of your sentences exactly as you did.  What it is doing to the casual fan?  For 95% of casual fans, uh, nothing.  And in two months 100% of casual fans won’t care.

Die hard fans?  What is their cost in this so far other than a little temper tantrum that it isn’t resolved faster?  The die hard fan will be fine when it is resolved.  If they are not fine, then they probably should see a Shrink to get their priorities straight.

I have never said you are a “spoiled” fan as far as I can remember.  You are a fan with almost nothing meaningful at stake here so it is pretty easy to just be upset that it isn’t resolved.

This is the owners’ actual businesses and the player’s actual livelihood.   It isn’t unreasonable to rationally grasp that they will need more time to resolve this than the fan (that has nothing even close to as meaningful at stake) fantasizes they should need.

is it a shit show?  You can say that.  But there are real meaningful issues at stake and both sides are pretty ducking serious about not rolling over.  That’s gonna produce a “shit show” to some degree.

Why any of the this is that shocking to fans is what I am really surprised by.

It’s a shit show.  

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

If they started exchanging proposals a couple months earlier, do you think they'd be in the same spot they are now?  I don't.  I think both sides would have learned a lot earlier where the hot buttons were and what stuff was going to be an issue.  That said, I don't think the owners had any intention on not letting it get to this point unless the mlbpa caved on a ton of stuff.  They purposefully made the timeline shorter to increase pressure.  I do agree with that.  

Yes.  I think they would be in the same exact spot. 100%.

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

What's to stop the players from saying "just kidding! We were never going to seriously consider an intl draft and now you have no recourse until the next CBA to negotiate it."

 

You guys that seemingly think the players offer is without fault are clearly biased.

I never said it was without fault.  I said it was reasonable and I still think it is.  Also, again, MANFRED was apparently the one who initially came up with this plan, not the players.  

[Docwaukee]

don't worry everyone.  both the owners and players have our backs and are looking out for us.  

this is like a playground squabble among grammar school kids about whether the ball was out.  

the main thing this has reminded me is that the business of baseball has become more important than the game.   I've know that for awhile, but this certainly enforced it.