LAT: Puzzling lack of direction from Angels owner Arte Moreno makes GM role a difficult gig

[Dollar Bill]

https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2020-09-21/puzzling-lack-of-leadership-arte-moreno-continues-to-haunt-angels

[totdprods]

This is one of the best articles I have ever seen written about the Angels front office under Moreno. Great job @Dollar Bill. It offers such a great, comprehensive view of the Moreno years without getting buried in weeds or coming off as blasting or touting anyone specifically. 

Once again, it’ll be an interesting offseason. Maybe the biggest yet for the future of this club for the next decade. 

Also, the bit about non-tenders and a flooded free agent class is interesting and could be quite a wrinkle to usual offseasons.

Edited September 22, 2020 by totdprods

[kevinb]

“The Angels do not employ a president of baseball operations. At the start of this year, according to team media guides, the Angels employed 43 baseball operations staffers, the Dodgers 62.”
 

I thought the above was a key part of the article. I don’t understand how the Angels do not have a president of baseball operations. I don’t also get how the Angels have 43 staffers 19 less than the Dodgers. There’s a reason the Dodgers have been who they have been of late. Mimic them it’s obviously working. I’d be curious how many staffers is average around the league and if the Angels are above or below that number. 

[totdprods]

31 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

“The Angels do not employ a president of baseball operations. At the start of this year, according to team media guides, the Angels employed 43 baseball operations staffers, the Dodgers 62.”
 

I thought the above was a key part of the article. I don’t understand how the Angels do not have a president of baseball operations. I don’t also get how the Angels have 43 staffers 19 less than the Dodgers. There’s a reason the Dodgers have been who they have been of late. Mimic them it’s obviously working. I’d be curious how many staffers is average around the league and if the Angels are above or below that number. 

You also can’t just presume there are 19 more equally talented people available to hire, or that any 19 more will make a difference. That could be 19 more Dipotos or 19 more Epplers. It can be 19 more people to add noise, 19 more people to be crappy at their job, or 19 more who are brilliant. What is more likely?

But for the most part, yes, I agree there are parts of baseball ops that the Angels could probably spend more resources on.

Edited September 22, 2020 by totdprods

[Claude]

“The Angels do not employ a president of baseball operations.”

 

They should’ve hired one right after they fired Reagins. 

[Angels in 2030]

Good article and on-point.  Arte being star driven to the detriment of the rest of the organization.  This should be a great job and easy one -- yet we have a clear history of years of failure.  Something isn't right.

It does make some valid points in support of Dom for the new GM.  Someone with vast experience and some power & conviction to force Arte's hand for true changes.  Not just spend on player X -- but organizational needs up & down (scouts, etc.).  I'm a bit now more in support, if Eppler is gone, to get a veteran GM who won't be taking the job just for the opportunity to get one of the few positions -- but who will take it only with the condition (hopefully) to do it their way and have full power throughout.

[Angel Oracle]

The article points out a big factor.

The scouting HAS to be improved.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Fourts said:

Good article and on-point.  Arte being star driven to the detriment of the rest of the organization. 

This is what I’ve noticed.   Could it be that the advertising/marketing background leads him to spend mainly where the franchise gets noticed, star power.

How often do you see medium value, medium years contracts given out by Moreno?

It’s seemingly mainly either big contracts or one year deals.

And those one year deals flop almost always with starting pitching, calling into play the scouting issue?

Edited September 22, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[failos]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

This is what I’ve noticed.   Could it be that the advertising/marketing background leads him to spend mainly where the franchise gets noticed, star power.

How often do you see medium value, medium years contracts given out by Moreno?

It’s seemingly mainly either big contracts or one year deals.

And those one year deals flop almost always with starting pitching, calling into play the scouting issue?

There’s an Ohtani billboard on the 91 west (around Riverside/Corona) showing him pitching and batting and it’s really depressing to me. But it’s a beautiful advertisement.

Edited September 22, 2020 by failos

[Stradling]

You bring in star power to put new fans into seats.  He’s done that twice, Albert and Hamilton.  

[DCAngelsFan]

You've written it - now I wish we could make Arte read it.  

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

You bring in star power to put new fans into seats.  He’s done that twice, Albert and Hamilton.  

Rendon isn't a star?

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Rendon isn't a star?

Not outside of the baseball community.  

[Stradling]

Ohtani is MUCH more of a star than Rendon as far as marketability.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Not outside of the baseball community.  

I doubt many people knew who Josh Hamilton was outside of baseball either. Pujols maybe a little more but I doubt even he is that well known outside of baseball. Case in point, when was the last article we've seen about Hamilton since he left baseball? I don't even know if the guys alive, and I am a follower of baseball. Arte is the guy who is signing the big contracts Eppler/Dipoto did the other signings. Arte clearly wanted Pujols, Hamilton and Rendon especially after Arte couldn't sign Cole. 

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I doubt many people knew who Josh Hamilton was outside of baseball either. Pujols maybe a little more but I doubt even he is that well known outside of baseball. Case in point, when was the last article we've seen about Hamilton since he left baseball? I don't even know if the guys alive, and I am a follower of baseball. Arte is the guy who is signing the big contracts Eppler/Dipoto did the other signings. Arte clearly wanted Pujols, Hamilton and Rendon especially after Arte couldn't sign Cole. 

That isn’t a good case in point.  We all know that Hamilton flamed out and went the drug route.  Albert was a bigger than life name, he may not have been on par with Tiger or Kobe, but he was just beneath them.  Hamilton was a redemption story that had 60 Minute segments about.  My point is people think Arte wants marketable guys, and Rendon isn’t that.  He is a talent brought in to win games.

[Claude]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ohtani is MUCH more of a star than Rendon as far as marketability.  

He’s kinda back to being a prospect again. 

[AngelStew43]

I just hope Mr. Moreno is as high on Bauer as he obviously was on Rendon.  We need a number 1 starter, or at the very least, 2 guys that are close to being number one starters.  

Bauer is as close to an ace in this years free agent class as it gets.  Sign him, extend Bundy, see what Detmers brings to the group, and hope for a full season of good health from Heaney and Ohtani, and we may be OK.  Barria has looked good, and Sandoval has been very good early in his starts, and very good in relief.  

We may get a decent pitching staff, if Mr. Moreno steps up. 

[Taylor]

Arte has a done a LOT of good for the Angels, but I'm rapidly losing faith in his leadership.

[Taylor]

Quote

“I think pretty highly of Billy Eppler,” one source said. “I think people in the game believe that Billy did this the right way. It feels like Billy tried to bring a process-driven approach there.”

This.

[kevinb]

22 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That isn’t a good case in point.  We all know that Hamilton flamed out and went the drug route.  Albert was a bigger than life name, he may not have been on par with Tiger or Kobe, but he was just beneath them.  Hamilton was a redemption story that had 60 Minute segments about.  My point is people think Arte wants marketable guys, and Rendon isn’t that.  He is a talent brought in to win games.

You honestly can't be serious! Albert right below Tiger? Tiger was probably the most popular athlete in the world. He literally by himself created the Nike Golf world. Please tell me even the shoe brand that Pujols endorses? I couldn't tell you who sponsors Albert. Tiger had EA Nike and every other major brand company. Albert is a household name in baseball circles. I bet if you said Albert Pujols to random stranger on the street they wouldn't know who he was. Tiger not only is probably the greatest golfer or at the very least top two greatest golfers in the history of the sport, but he had one of the craziest controversies surrounding him with the sex addict, pills, TMZ thing. Albert has probably never been the most popular baseball player in the MLB. Even in his prime. 

Agree, I don't think Arte just wants marketable guys. He wants to win. I liken Arte to Jerry Jones. It's his team, he wants the final say and he thinks he knows what's best. For better or worse. 

[yk9001]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Albert was a bigger than life name, he may not have been on par with Tiger or Kobe, but he was just beneath them.

Good god, some of you are delusional.

[yk9001]

If you think that Albert Pujols was ever even close to the stratosphere of Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant, you need to, as the Wolf said in Pulp Fiction, "Move out of the sticks, fellas".

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That isn’t a good case in point.  We all know that Hamilton flamed out and went the drug route.  Albert was a bigger than life name, he may not have been on par with Tiger or Kobe, but he was just beneath them.  Hamilton was a redemption story that had 60 Minute segments about.  My point is people think Arte wants marketable guys, and Rendon isn’t that.  He is a talent brought in to win games.

I think Rendon has more star power within the baseball community than you are leading on.  Yes, he was brought in  to win games but it's still on par with Arte making the big splash.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's great that he's willing to bring in a guy like Rendon or extend Trout for life.  But there does seem to be a pattern, and that pattern isn't working.  

Both of our jobs are likely very process driven so we can likely corroborate the importance of such.  

you look at teams like the Dogs, Cards, Indians, Rays, or A's.   There is a sustainability and consistency with those team's methods.  They might cycle through a few bad stretches from time to time but they work their way back because of process.  

If it's true of what's being said, then trying to piece together a competitive club on a yearly basis is a recipe for sustained mediocrity.  And we are truly seeing that.  Spending on guys like Teheran and Allen and Harvey and Cahill takes it toll.  Somewhere in the org, it has an impact. 

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

You also can’t just presume there are 19 more equally talented people available to hire, or that any 19 more will make a difference. That could be 19 more Dipotos or 19 more Epplers. It can be 19 more people to add noise, 19 more people to be crappy at their job, or 19 more who are brilliant. What is more likely?

But for the most part, yes, I agree there are parts of baseball ops that the Angels could probably spend more resources on.

You don't need all 19 more rock stars.  If of that pool of 19 you can get 2 or three super talented people that bring value to the org then it's worth having 16 or 17 others that may not bring as much.  But frankly, it doesn't matter if the existing 43 are handcuffed by a broken process then 19 more handcuffed by the same thing probably doesn't help.  

 

They need to fix what's broken.  I think Eppler tried to do that. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think Rendon has more star power within the baseball community than you are leading on.  Yes, he was brought in  to win games but it's still on par with Arte making the big splash.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's great that he's willing to bring in a guy like Rendon or extend Trout for life.  But there does seem to be a pattern, and that pattern isn't working.  

Both of our jobs are likely very process driven so we can likely corroborate the importance of such.  

you look at teams like the Dogs, Cards, Indians, Rays, or A's.   There is a sustainability and consistency with those team's methods.  They might cycle through a few bad stretches from time to time but they work their way back because of process.  

If it's true of what's being said, then trying to piece together a competitive club on a yearly basis is a recipe for sustained mediocrity.  And we are truly seeing that.  Spending on guys like Teheran and Allen and Harvey and Cahill takes it toll.  Somewhere in the org, it has an impact. 

You don't need all 19 more rock stars.  If of that pool of 19 you can get 2 or three super talented people that bring value to the org then it's worth having 16 or 17 others that may not bring as much.  But frankly, it doesn't matter if the existing 43 are handcuffed by a broken process then 19 more handcuffed by the same thing probably doesn't help.  

 

They need to fix what's broken.  I think Eppler tried to do that. 

My point was people who say Arte only cares about money and only signs marketable guys are wrong.  Rendon isn’t a household name.  He isn’t bringing new fans to the ballpark.  The only way he does that is to help the team win.  He was brought in to help the team win.