LAT: Puzzling lack of direction from Angels owner Arte Moreno makes GM role a difficult gig

[Claude]

3 minutes ago, calscuf said:

I'm just here to watch Strad the next few hours.

That’s my job. Buzz off. 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

My point was people who say Arte only cares about money and only signs marketable guys are wrong.  Rendon isn’t a household name.  He isn’t bringing new fans to the ballpark.  The only way he does that is to help the team win.  He was brought in to help the team win.  

yes.  this is true.  

I have no doubt that Arte wants to win and the primary reason for doing what he does is to give the team a better chance to do so.  

but Arte needs to stop approaching a major league baseball team like it's an NBA team.  

[failos]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

Rendon isn't a star?

He’s not bringing the fans to the stadium

[Blarg]

1 minute ago, calscuf said:

A naked Kate Upton wouldn’t bring fans to the stadium right now.

Well, it is closed to the public so there's that to consider. 

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, yk9001 said:

If you think that Albert Pujols was ever even close to the stratosphere of Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant, you need to, as the Wolf said in Pulp Fiction, "Move out of the sticks, fellas".

And if you don’t think he was Baseballs equivalent at the time he was a free agent, I don’t know what to tell you.  Look you hate the guy, we all get it.  But to pretend he didn’t have star power when he was signed, and probably the most star power in the sport then you are lying to yourself.  Maybe my choice of words originally was poor, maybe instead of just beneath, I should have said, Baseballs Equivalent, but my guess is you would have taken exception to that as well.  It was a bad contract we all get it.  

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Game 6 said:

if only Arte could have signed one of his first two choices - Tiger or Kobe.

Too bad he had to settle for Albert Pujols who was just beneath them...

Did you need attention?  

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, failos said:

He’s not bringing the fans to the stadium

To be fair no one's bringing fans to the stadium this season. 

[yk9001]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And if you don’t think he was Baseballs equivalent at the time he was a free agent, I don’t know what to tell you.  Look you hate the guy, we all get it.  But to pretend he didn’t have star power when he was signed, and probably the most star power in the sport then you are lying to yourself.  Maybe my choice of words originally was poor, maybe instead of just beneath, I should have said, Baseballs Equivalent, but my guess is you would have taken exception to that as well.  It was a bad contract we all get it.  

Tony Azevedo was water polo's equivalent of Tiger or Kobe.  Biggest star power in the sport.  Doesn't mean he has the star power of Tiger Frigging Woods.

Being baseball's biggest star doesn't put you even close to Tiger or Kobe level.  This isn't Mickey Mantle in 1965.

 

LOL - Pujols was such a super duper mega star that the Angels attendance went down 100,000 his first year in Anaheim.

 

Man, you guys are delusional.

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by yk9001

[Stradling]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Tony Azevedo was water polo's equivalent of Tiger or Kobe.  Biggest star power in the sport.  Doesn't mean he has the star power of Tiger Frigging Woods.

Being baseball's biggest star doesn't put you even close to Tiger or Kobe level.  This isn't Mickey Mantle in 1965.

 

LOL - Pujols was such a super duper maga star that the Angels attendance went down 100,000 his first year in Anaheim.

 

Man, you guys are delusional.

 

Cool

[tdawg87]

2 hours ago, Spin Rate said:

Arte has a done a LOT of good for the Angels, but I'm rapidly losing faith in his leadership.

This is where I stand.

5 straight losing seasons with Mike fucking Trout in his prime. Lots of blame to go around but that's unacceptable.

[nate]

I hope Arte sells the team

[Angelsjunky]

I'd rather have star performance than star power. Star power is Kim Kardashian. Star performance is Meryl Streep.

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, nate said:

I hope Arte sells the team

[failos]

3 hours ago, Kevinb said:

To be fair no one's bringing fans to the stadium this season. 

[Second Base]

5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think Rendon has more star power within the baseball community than you are leading on.  Yes, he was brought in  to win games but it's still on par with Arte making the big splash.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think it's great that he's willing to bring in a guy like Rendon or extend Trout for life.  But there does seem to be a pattern, and that pattern isn't working.  

Both of our jobs are likely very process driven so we can likely corroborate the importance of such.  

you look at teams like the Dogs, Cards, Indians, Rays, or A's.   There is a sustainability and consistency with those team's methods.  They might cycle through a few bad stretches from time to time but they work their way back because of process.  

If it's true of what's being said, then trying to piece together a competitive club on a yearly basis is a recipe for sustained mediocrity.  And we are truly seeing that.  Spending on guys like Teheran and Allen and Harvey and Cahill takes it toll.  Somewhere in the org, it has an impact. 

You don't need all 19 more rock stars.  If of that pool of 19 you can get 2 or three super talented people that bring value to the org then it's worth having 16 or 17 others that may not bring as much.  But frankly, it doesn't matter if the existing 43 are handcuffed by a broken process then 19 more handcuffed by the same thing probably doesn't help.  

 

They need to fix what's broken.  I think Eppler tried to do that. 

I suppose my question, and the million dollar question at this point would be, how do you fix that problem?

If star-driven results in mediocrity, and process-driven requires a relative rebuild that Moreno won't do, then you're stuck.

I thought Eppler had the best shot and finding a successful balance of the two, drafting decently, having decent international signings, trading for prospects like Rengifo and Sandoval, while also employing a star-driven space that netted them Trout long term and Rendon.

But at this point, it looks like Billy was wrong. 

And the most difficult part, at least as far as I can see, is that we aren't exactly sure why he was wrong. I mean yeah pitching, but where specifically has he failed in pitching? He's not the only GM to sign bad FA. Good bullpen finds have been great. He was aggressive on Bundy because he clearly saw something. Drafting Detmers and Canning was exactly what the team needed.

From what I gather, and what I believe, his drafting was solid, but position player oriented in a game that requires elite pitching. But it can't be that simple, can it?

 

[AngelStew43]

I think a full spring training and a full season next year will provide a better judgement on Eppler and the scouting staff.

I prefer to believe that some of the young starters, like C. Rod and Detmers, will be contributing next season.   

[UndertheHalo]

The more that comes out the shittier it looks for the character and competence of the organization.  Just a non stop slide to hell since Skaggs died.  At least we’ve got Trout.  

[yk9001]

10 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

The more that comes out the shittier it looks for the character and competence of the organization.  Just a non stop slide to hell since Skaggs died.  At least we’ve got Trout.  

Considering that someone in the organization was fetching dope for Skaggs, and "people" knew about it, it goes on before his death.

[Lou]

14 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'd rather have star performance than star power. Star power is Kim Kardashian. Star performance is Meryl Streep.

I'd rather rather have Kim. 

Sicko. 

[Lou]

4 hours ago, Game 6 said:

If this were a normal season it would be late May right now and the Angels would be 25-31. There would be hope.

No, it would still be late September.  MLB doesn't control the Earth's orbit around the sun.

[Inside Pitch]

11 hours ago, AngelStew43 said:

I think a full spring training and a full season next year will provide a better judgement on Eppler and the scouting staff.

I prefer to believe that some of the young starters, like C. Rod and Detmers, will be contributing next season.   

As is stands, the Angels rotation has 3 guys in the top 30 for fWAR, and Barria ranks 32nd.  Been a long time since the rotation proved to be that capable.

[AngelsLakersFan]

It's almost as if it takes more than 5 years to do a soft rebuild...

[AngelsFaninGA]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

No, it would still be late September.  MLB doesn't control the Earth's orbit around the sun.

Or does it... wake up sheeple!!

[T.G.]

At the end if the day the Angels success or lack of falls at Artre's feet.

The team started to go sour when they began to lose their identity. That identity was cultivated by Mike Scioscia and Bill Stoneman. They instilled a culture and as the team began to move away from that culture and identity the failures began.

There has been a vacuum of leadership for some time now. Eppler has done the best he can within that vacuum, but Arte has to be the one who establishes the organizational culture or give the right person the autonomy to do so.  He's made a mess of it, IMO.

I don't know how or if this can be corrected. He's sort of like Jerry Jones. The Cowboys were great when they let Jimmy Johnson instill the culture and identity and they started to fail when Jones took over that process.

I don't question Arte's desire to win. I question the culture he has created.

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, True Grich said:

At the end if the day the Angels success or lack of falls at Artre's feet.

The team started to go sour when they began to lose their identity. That identity was cultivated by Mike Scioscia and Bill Stoneman. They instilled a culture and as the team began to move away from that culture and identity the failures began.

There has been a vacuum of leadership for some time now. Eppler has done the best he can within that vacuum, but Arte has to be the one who establishes the organizational culture or give the right person the autonomy to do so.  He's made a mess of it, IMO.

I don't know how or if this can be corrected. He's sort of like Jerry Jones. The Cowboys were great when they let Jimmy Johnson instill the culture and identity and they started to fail when Jones took over that process.

I don't question Arte's desire to win. I question the culture he has created.

Like when Arte Signed Colon Vlad Hunter etc. That culture? Arte can be blamed sure, but we wouldn't have Trout locked up or Rendon locked up if it wasn't for Arte. He has done more good than harm to this organization. We wouldn't be near the top in the league of spending if it wasn't for Arte. We sure weren't with the previous owners.